Sump x Canister - I need help !

[Fernando Parra]

Hello everyone!

I am setting up a new saltwater fish tank, it has approximately 200G, I don't have a good space below of the display to install a sump, to install this sump I would need to change my stand and I really don't want to do that.

My question is, is it possible to use a canister filter instead of a sump for this saltwater tank? I know that the sump are important to fit all the equipment inside the sump instead of the main display but in my situation I am considering to install only a canister and keep the heater and a protein skimmer (hang on) inside the main display. Will it works for this tank?

My another concern is about the nitrate, I have heard that if I setup my tank with a canister the level of nitrate could be higher, is it true or just a myth?

Thank you.
Fernando Parra

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The down fall of a canister is it cant be run like a freshwater system or it does become a nitrate factory. While Im a BIG fan of mechanical filtration, the prob I would see is that it would be extremely easy to overwhelm the system, by adding too much livestock.
In general a 200g marine sumpless would be a trick for most aquarists.
for a tank that size Id rather recommend a HOB skimmer and possibly an in tank mechanical filter like the ones from tunze.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Hey and a Big welcome to Reef2reef!!

 

[Fernando Parra]

Thank you for your quick reply! In some stores I have seen big fish tanks without Sump, how they keep their tanks with good parameters? The best option for this tank will be a sump below or do you know any other alternative?

I really appreciate your help!

 

[mikenestle]

In the stores they are probably plumbed into one system or they have employees to keep up with the maintenance. I am new to saltwater but I run a canister on my exotic pleco tank and love it. I was thinking of using one on my 120 and everybody at my LFS said don't do it. I researched a ton before I bought my tank and if I was you I would change the stand before set up. More experienced people may tell you different here.

 

[Joey waid]

It can be done, but you have to stay on keeping the filter clean. 200 gallons would be tough on one canister filter. I would run two or three plus hang on skimmer/skimmers.

 

[mikenestle]

One other thing, if you don't have experience with cleaning a canister you may want to see what you are in for. Not much fun.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

In some stores I have seen big fish tanks without Sump, how they keep their tanks with good parameters?

Always feel free to ask, then always fact check. Ive actually become friends with a lot of LFS as I did just that.

The best option for this tank will be a sump below or do you know any other alternative?

As mentioned above, Hang On Back are a good option. Also In tank is another. check out the tunze comline reef pack(too small i think for your tank) but this is their strategy. Mech, with skimmer.
Hob refugiums are also another means of export, and some like the ones from cpr I believe have a built in skimmer.

The basic theory is you put food in fish eat it and poop. it rots the bacteria eat it and gets skimmed. OR you can use a large mechanical filter(canister/floss) and filter out the particles of food and waste. The bio filter takes care of the rest. Failure on canisters IMO is only due to not cleaning regularly. depending on how much food you put in to support the inhabitants is the question. You can overwhelm a canister AND skimmer AND bio filter.
corals do have an impact on lowering nutrints as well, as the eat them too.

Bio filter BTW, is the bacteria in the live rock and sand.

So you really have to balance how much livestock you put in in all cases, but with a canister you run the risk of overloading quickly if left uncleaned.

One other thing, if you don't have experience with cleaning a canister you may want to see what you are in for. Not much fun.

The one I have(not in constant use) I have only blue white filter floss. takes about 1.5 gal of water and is pretty easy. Some do use bio media/ceramics, no that was stinky and bleh. but to each thier own.


So a more bulletproof way to do this the sump and skimmer. water and wast fall into the sump(gravity filter mechanical)filter socks strain it(mechanical), and the skimmer helps by skimming some of the organics too, and then remove the waste from the bio filter.

So, IMO, on a canister only you would have to be particularly mindful of overstocking and overfeeding.

 

[jeflen651]

I have a 40 gallon breeder tank that I run with a canister filter. I use a 500 GPH Aquatop canister that is more than enough for the system. I can honestly say that I have never had a nitrate issue since the tank was set up 3 years ago. The only algae issue that I had were the typical on the glass algae on the glass that I cleaned every other day. But since the middle of November I have been using a product called "Vibrant" that has done a very good j0b keeping algae off the glass. As long as you clean your canister every 2-3 weeks, change filter floss and add any media that you want (I run carbon and GFO as needed and nothing else) all should be good. With your tank you would probably need 2 canister filters that circulate 500 GPH.

 

[bw777]

If your using a canister filter definetly go over kill on the filtration. I have a 90g that I use a fluval fx6 on, I've never had nitrate issues. I actually really like it. I clean it every 2-3 weeks and do weekly water changes.

 

[bif24701]

Honestly with a good HOB skimmer, good flow, HOB mechanical filter, high quality Pukani rock, 1" sand (no more) and an appropriate bio load you don't need the canister at all.

In fact it would be better to not have one at all. Your bio filtration will occur on and in the surface of the rock, the skimmer will remove DOCs before they breakdown into nitrates/phosphates and give you lots of gas exchange. The mechanical filter will remove particles before they dissolve into DOCs (dissolved organic compounds). Good flow will enhance the gas exchange on the water surface, bio filtration in the rock, keep detritus from settling on the sand so that it can be filtered out. Keep a reasonable bio load and don't over feed, this will help you keep things clean.

Do use a canister for anything but a media reactor for activated carbon and/or GFO if/when needed. You only need a small one that does about 200-300+ gph.

Remember that you will have algae and other blooms the first 6 months before things get stable and truly clean.

Only use RO/DI water, 000 TDS.

Have a good water change stystem to make it easy and quick so that you will do them more often.

Always QT every fish for 8 weeks!

If you don't have high light corals don't use high lighting.

Siphon the sand bed on water changes.

Use a turkey baster before water changes to blast stuff off the rocks.

Monitor you parameters weekly and the stock for stress and changes.

Don't use a canister as a filter. They use huge amounts of O2 that will drop pH, hard to get truly clean, process ammonia into Nitrate quickly yet will not process any Nitrate.

Good luck!

 

[Fernando Parra]

Hello everyone,

I am glad with so many answer in my post. I am new here because that I have so many questions, I will try to install a traditional sump below this tank, I have a plan to build a reef tank with different kinds of corals (soft and hard) and a few fishes. I already ordered the 3 led lightning of 165W (the cheapest I found at Amazon.com) each one to install in the canopy (that I built). Do you guys believe that I will have enough illumination to grown the corals?

I gave up of the idea to buy a canister instead of a sump. I really have never seen a 200G saltwater tank with a canister! Probably it does not make sense! I will open another topic in the forum about the sump, I don't want to pay a lot of money in a new brand sump, my idea would be buy a 20 gallon glass and convert in a sump, what do you guys think about it?

So, do you guys know what is the correct tank size to built a sump for a 200G tank? If you guys have any sump project that you can share with me I will really appreciate, I have never tried to build anything like that! It will be a challenge!

How many pounds of live sand do I need for a 200G (6ft x 2ft x 2.2ft) ?
How many pounds and what kind of media do I need to use inside the sump?
How many pounds of live rock do I need for a 200G?

I don't know what else I need to finish this nice project, if you guys have any issue to share, please feel free!

I am sorry about so many questions and thank you guys so much for all help provided to me!
Fernando Parra

 

[bif24701]

Hello everyone,

I am glad with so many answer in my post. I am new here because that I have so many questions, I will try to install a traditional sump below this tank, I have a plan to build a reef tank with different kinds of corals (soft and hard) and a few fishes. I already ordered the 3 led lightning of 165W (the cheapest I found at Amazon.com) each one to install in the canopy (that I built). Do you guys believe that I will have enough illumination to grown the corals?

I gave up of the idea to buy a canister instead of a sump. I really have never seen a 200G saltwater tank with a canister! Probably it does not make sense! I will open another topic in the forum about the sump, I don't want to pay a lot of money in a new brand sump, my idea would be buy a 20 gallon glass and convert in a sump, what do you guys think about it?

So, do you guys know what is the correct tank size to built a sump for a 200G tank? If you guys have any sump project that you can share with me I will really appreciate, I have never tried to build anything like that! It will be a challenge!

How many pounds of live sand do I need for a 200G (6ft x 2ft x 2.2ft) ?
How many pounds and what kind of media do I need to use inside the sump?
How many pounds of live rock do I need for a 200G?

I don't know what else I need to finish this nice project, if you guys have any issue to share, please feel free!

I am sorry about so many questions and thank you guys so much for all help provided to me!
Fernando Parra

I think you will need at least a 40 breeder for a tank that size. You can find all kinds of "How tos" on building a sump from a 40 breeder. Pick up a 40 from Petco for 40$, Petsmart will price match that also.

I built mine with three chambers: skimmer>refugium>return. You can need only two chambers, a skimmer and then the return pump section. The only purpose of the skimmer section is to maintain a constant level of water for the skimmer to sit in because if not it is impossible to tune. 1/4" glass cut and polished edges from a glass store for ~65$. Used one tube of aquarium silicone (or GE #1 clear silicone) ~10$ and inject the silicone in between the tank glass and the baffle glass edges. Doesn't have to be pretty but measure to make sure they are straight and if you get the glass cut to the right length there will be a perfect gap to inject the silicon. Use something to hold the glass in place over night and let the silicone cure for a full week to gas off fumes.
All together is whole sump costs ~100$ and it's strong enough to last decades. Very functional.

Good luck!

 

[Joey waid]

20 gallons is not big enough. You need one pound of rock per gallon of water. You can get rubber made water feeders at tractor supply pretty cheap, they are around 100 gallons. You can use about half of it in water volume and put 100 pounds of rock in it.

 

[bif24701]

Hello everyone,

I am glad with so many answer in my post. I am new here because that I have so many questions, I will try to install a traditional sump below this tank, I have a plan to build a reef tank with different kinds of corals (soft and hard) and a few fishes. I already ordered the 3 led lightning of 165W (the cheapest I found at Amazon.com) each one to install in the canopy (that I built). Do you guys believe that I will have enough illumination to grown the corals?

I gave up of the idea to buy a canister instead of a sump. I really have never seen a 200G saltwater tank with a canister! Probably it does not make sense! I will open another topic in the forum about the sump, I don't want to pay a lot of money in a new brand sump, my idea would be buy a 20 gallon glass and convert in a sump, what do you guys think about it?

So, do you guys know what is the correct tank size to built a sump for a 200G tank? If you guys have any sump project that you can share with me I will really appreciate, I have never tried to build anything like that! It will be a challenge!

How many pounds of live sand do I need for a 200G (6ft x 2ft x 2.2ft) ?
How many pounds and what kind of media do I need to use inside the sump?
How many pounds of live rock do I need for a 200G?

I don't know what else I need to finish this nice project, if you guys have any issue to share, please feel free!

I am sorry about so many questions and thank you guys so much for all help provided to me!
Fernando Parra

If you get the nice stuff, BRS Pukani dry rock 100 pounds would go a long way and give you lots of swimming room, the aquascape will look nice, you can leave some space behind the back for flowto get detritus up. Then put two MarinePure blocks in your sump and that together with 100 lbs of Pukani will give you all the surface area you need. If you want sand get Reef grade (larger size grain) , and only 1" no more.


That's all you need:
100 pound a Pukani
2 MarinePure BLOCKS (not plates or balls)
Good skimmer
DIY sump (40 breeder)
Return pump (look at the Reef Octopus Varios-6 DC pump
Heater
Basic controller
Lights
RO/DI
Power Heads (8,000-10,000 or 12,000 gph worth)