Super low salinity from Live Aquaria
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Crashjack
Well-Known Member
My issues are two-fold: 1) It puts a lot of work on me... I have to get my QT salinity to match or come close after I open the fish bag, and then I have to mix and add salt several times a day, and 2) These are wild caught fish that were in NSW. What procedure was used to get them into 1.017 s.g. or less water? If they care so little about the water the fish are in, I can't believe they care about acclimating the fish to that water. If they don't care about any of that, do they care about the fish at all (might explain all the DOAs).
I'm not that demanding but am more demanding than what I'm seeing from LA.
I have not been impressed with LA at all... a 2 year old could take better care of fish.
I use a small needle on a strong puncture the bag, take sample, use packing tape to seal the hole and float the bag as I adjust the salinity in the qt. I also intentionally leave my qt water level several inches to low and have extra saltwater and rodi handy. Once salinity matches I open bag discard bag water and put fish in qt.
SomethingCool
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Didn't read all the posts but just want to give my experiences with LA...
4 orders over the past five years, thinking each time "maybe this time will be better".
-Have had a DOA 3 out of 4 times
-Very poor customer service each time in attempts to resolve said DOAs as if it were my fault when each time I took the arrival day off work so could get the order as soon as it arrived.
Have given up on them and will mot order from LA again
4 orders over the past five years, thinking each time "maybe this time will be better".
-Have had a DOA 3 out of 4 times
-Very poor customer service each time in attempts to resolve said DOAs as if it were my fault when each time I took the arrival day off work so could get the order as soon as it arrived.
Have given up on them and will mot order from LA again
" I did acclimate him by adding 1/2 cup tanks water every 5 minutes til bag was very full. Then dumped half bag and did it twice again. Raised the salinity to 1.020 in about 1 hour 45 min"
I order from LA quite frequently and the lowest salinity for any fish I have ever received was 1.019. Even at that, I will spend hours to raise the salinity to match my QT at 1.025. You cannot raise salinity that quickly - you're bound to lose the fish by doing that. And a FW dip on top of that makes no sense...bsa
I order from LA quite frequently and the lowest salinity for any fish I have ever received was 1.019. Even at that, I will spend hours to raise the salinity to match my QT at 1.025. You cannot raise salinity that quickly - you're bound to lose the fish by doing that. And a FW dip on top of that makes no sense...bsa
I would not think so, what's happening is after you open the bag the pH rises, making a nontoxic form of ammonia toxic, it will be a high level. Kinda like if you took a tank at 2ppm ammonia and added rock, it would take time for the ammonia to be processed. It's not an instantaneous process.
This is part of the reason for using a qt. Even if you don't desire to fully quarantine your livestock, I would still setup an acclimation tank for the fish to rest, eat, and adjust the salinity.
Crashjack
Well-Known Member
I guess my point is, if you want to half-butt and leave it all up to me, I don't care to do business with you. I have no qualms with LA's customer service, I just want them to put a little effort into caring for the fish they ship me. Don't ship me fish in 1.017 s.g. water and tell me you care. I know that is BS.
Customer service is great, except for that one lady. I wanted to jump through the phone.
I ordered a large naso and got a small and she wanted to argue with me (two orders ago).
I ordered a large naso and got a small and she wanted to argue with me (two orders ago).
eatbreakfast
Fish Nerd
True hyposalinity ryns betwwen 12-16ppt, which is 1.oo9-1.012, so 1.017 shoyld be fine for the fish.
My understanding is the slightly lower salinity eases the stress on the fish during shipping. I have seen some LFS run their tanks at the same lower salinity to help deter any disease. My experience with LA is that their customer service is usually very good to excellent. There have been a time or two that fish I ordered came in less than desirable or larger than ordered. Both times they made good by either refunding in full or credit - my choice. Don't believe anyone else out there would do that. We all need to be comfortable with who we buy from. I personally would not go on the experience of others or just having one bad experience deter me from trying again. But that is one's choice.
bsa
bsa
Crashjack
Well-Known Member
I realize that but if a fish was caught in say 1.026 s.g., why take an already stressed fish from being caught and transported half-way around the world and decide to drop its salinity so significantly but not to the point it would actually kill parasites? They obviously do it so how do they do it? Do they really slowly acclimate the fish to it or do they just throw it in? Diver's Den is their top of the line, and they ship at 1.024-1.025. Why isn't DD shipping at 1.017? I understand paying more for some quarantine and a supposed good specimen that I can view online, but I shouldn't have to pay more just to get a reasonable salinity I can work with.
My biggest issue was that they told me my fish would ship at 1.024. After the fact, they said whoever told me that was wrong and that LA ships at 1.021... they don't ship at either. I don't want to fool with not knowing the salinity and then having to adjust my QT water at the last minute and then spend the time slowly raising the salinity of the QT to match my DT. It's too much effort on my part to compensate for what appears to be a lack of effort on their part.
My biggest issue was that they told me my fish would ship at 1.024. After the fact, they said whoever told me that was wrong and that LA ships at 1.021... they don't ship at either. I don't want to fool with not knowing the salinity and then having to adjust my QT water at the last minute and then spend the time slowly raising the salinity of the QT to match my DT. It's too much effort on my part to compensate for what appears to be a lack of effort on their part.[/QUOTE]
You obviously have numerous concerns that IMO really are not an issue for me. BUT, that is just my opinion. Best then that you stay away from them. I have purchased from fish stores who also keep their salinity at 1.019 or 1.020. Bottom line, no matter where I get a fish from, I check all parameters and acclimate accordingly.
PS In all research I have done and everything I have read, the ocean salinity is not 1.026
bsa
You obviously have numerous concerns that IMO really are not an issue for me. BUT, that is just my opinion. Best then that you stay away from them. I have purchased from fish stores who also keep their salinity at 1.019 or 1.020. Bottom line, no matter where I get a fish from, I check all parameters and acclimate accordingly.
PS In all research I have done and everything I have read, the ocean salinity is not 1.026
bsa
Crashjack
Well-Known Member
According to NOAA, coral reefs around the world vary from a salinity of 32 ppt (1.024 s.g.) to 42 ppt (1.032 s.g.) https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/coralwaters.html . 1.026 s.g. is definitely in that range and a reasonable assumption but regardless, 1.017 isn't close to the lowest salinity in that range. Admittedly, a lot of my issue with the extra work involved stems from my physical handicap. I operate out of a powerchair or scooter, and these tasks take a lot of additional time and effort for me. I'm not going to patronize a company that makes my life more difficult and calls into question the health of their fish, just so they can save a few bucks on salt (I see no other logical explanation, especially since their "premier" product ships at 1.024-1.025 s.g.). Telling me they will ship at 1.017 and shipping at or near 1.017 is one thing. Telling me they will ship at 1.024 or even 1.021 and shipping at 1.017 is another.
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Sorry for your physical handicap. I just brought a crescent wrasse home from my local LFS and the salinity was 1.03o. They hadn't topped off yet today. In this hobby, you need to make certain you are checking all parameters regardless of where a fish comes from or have someone help you if can't do it alone. Life is not perfect and people do make mistakes unwittingly. I have been buying from LA and DD for years. I am usually quite pleased with my purchase and if not, they have gone out of their way to make it right.
Taken from Accimation Essentials:
2) Salinity
For saltwater fish the specific gravity (Salinity) your animals are arriving in will be between 1.019 - 1.022. The lower salinity level means your fish is receiving higher levels of oxygen when it breathes. This is an excellent level to keep your home aquarium at. As a side benefit, at this salinity level your fish are less prone to common ailments such as ich. We highly recommend this salinity level for fish only aquariums.
1.017 is not going to jeopardize the life of a fish. Unfortunately, since we are not there at every turn, there is no way to know if any fish is being collected properly. All we can do is put our trust into the fisherman and vendors and hope they are doing the right thing. I would definitely advise you to purchase locally where they can test all parameters for you so there are no surprises.
Crashjack
Well-Known Member
I have an adult form of Muscular Dystrophy and can usually figure out a way to work around it. When I was in the hobby years ago, I had been diagnosed but it didn't affect me a lot. I geared everything around doing things as cheap as possible, regardless of the amount of time or effort it took. Now, automation and ease are paramount, and costs take a back seat (within reason).
I'm not sure I totally subscribe to the Acclimation Essentials above. I know colder water holds more oxygen than warmer, but have never seen that salinity variances make a significant difference in oxygen levels and even if lower salinity holds more oxygen, it would only matter if the fish needed it. For instance, brown trout require high oxygen levels that requires them to live in cold, running water. However, a smallmouth bass wouldn't necessarily benefit from the additional oxygen content in that environment more so than a warmer lake environment with lower oxygen content. Also, from what I've read, salinity levels as low as hypo salinity won't eliminate velvet and not even all strains of ich. The statement that 1.019-1.022 salinity making fish less prone to ich is pretty nebulous. How does a salinity of 1.019-1.022 make fish less prone to ich? Why would fish be better off in lower salinity than their natural environment? Why would Diver's Den ship fish at 1.024-1.025 if 1.019-1.022 is better for fish and where we should keep our tanks?
Low SG increases the level of dissolved oxygen in the water and reduces metabolic demands on a fish, so those two factors probably help them "manage" ich.
DD ships at 1.025 because they know most of their customers maintain reef tanks, where corals require higher salinity.
Crashjack
Well-Known Member
Is there research that proves this or is it just an assumption? If true, one would assume that lower temperatures would also be in order to increase oxygen levels. I realize fish do fine at salinity levels lower than NSW but are these lower salinities really proven to be optimal?
Makes sense, but are all DD fish reef safe?
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