The Climate Change thread - news about the changing climate and the effects on reef ecosystems.

[The_Paradox]

Let's get down to ther brass tacks people, we can solve this;-) How much of the human population needs to "expire", and how do we decide who?

 

[Doctorgori]

Come on. You're lumping multiple people into a group. And - that means you're prejudiced to a degree (not attacking merely stating a fact) - IMHO - if people are going to discuss this issue - seems to me - they need to discuss. Judging R2R - IMHO - not appropriate. BTW - your comment - saying 'the assorted posters watch with 100% accuracy' - is probably statist. You have no clue what 100% of people do. (Nor do i)

Really, we both know nothing is 100% certain…What I said was meant to be just that; prejudiced and sarcastic. Things are getting so bad and divisive that its assumed if you believe in “this” you also believe in “that”
…… so sure not 100% of Newsmax viewers are against Climate Change ….. But if you knew someone only watched Fox or Newsmax how much would you bet on it?

 

[MoshJosh]

But who is Cthulhu's running mate, and will they have the courage to do what must be done. Will need to know before I cast my vote!

 

[Lebowski_]

"my tank uses less energy than a TV does"
I can clearly say that :

1. you don't have Apex Aquacontroller, therefore you are unable to monitor your Tank Energy Consumption
2. you are watching your TV 24/7
3. You have pico tank (5 gal)

"Avarage TV uses 58.6 watts when running and 1.3 watts while in standby mode"-per Mr Google

Guess it depends a lot on the size and tech of the TV. Tank does use a crazy small amount of power, though. Calculated it out and it was just over 2amps if everything was going full on. It’s a 25g for the record.

Gotta love those efficiency gains. I still remember my old halides literally melting my skin and also melting my cross brace that was 15” below it. I could have roasted a chicken with that wasted heat energy!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Majority of our pollution is created by corporations. It's most important to vote for politicians who put regulations on pollution and create positive policies for the environment. I mean worse case scenario we have a nice place to live, I don't get the problem.

Corporations are not good or evil - as well, most politicians don't give a hoot about you, me or any other cause that does not generate wealth or power.

What cracks me up about most of this is that the same people who think the government is bad, keep looking to government to provide a solution.

As for pollution - that is complex, but you can't blame corporations. It is simple a contribution from each consumer and their means and desires. I am not sure how you fix that in a free society and the regulation to control it certainly is the opposite of freedom. I am not sure where the happy medium is either.

 

[MnFish1]

Serious question. Why does no one lump humans in with “one of earths cycles”? I mean seriously, we’re just monkeys that learned to wear pants.

Because humans 'themselves' do not cause the problems - i.e. -

All of my coral are aquacultured, rock is man made in 40 km away, my tank uses less energy than a TV does in any given day (we don’t really watch tv).

It’s not perfect, but there are a lot of improvements and gains in efficiency that are allowing us to slowly reduce the costs of the hobby.

It’s better to keep pushing for better science and better tech than to not. Maybe our decedents will look back on this hobby and think we were selfish morons!

You are an invisible speck on the landscape of climate change - that you would even defend your personal things - as something significant seems odd. Now - I suppose you could say 'if everyone did this.........' However I agree with you - in the future people will have no aquariums, Reef or SW - PETA has already declared them invalid independent of energy climate change. Instead - 'just watch a video on your TV' - thats not my wording. However - then we get to that painful issue where - people can't afford TV's

 

[MnFish1]

Guess it depends a lot on the size and tech of the TV. Tank does use a crazy small amount of power, though. Calculated it out and it was just over 2amps if everything was going full on. It’s a 25g for the record.

Gotta love those efficiency gains. I still remember my old halides literally melting my skin and also melting my cross brace that was 15” below it. I could have roasted a chicken with that wasted heat energy!

I would guess that many many people have larger tanks

 

[Lebowski_]

Then - as compared to your neighbors without a reef tank - should be dinged as well? Correct?

Maybe, although I wild argue total consumption should be the calculation that matters, rather than per item usage.

Trust me, I’m Canadian, I wouldn’t live here if I was worried about getting dinged for buying things or using services lol.

 

[The_Paradox]

But who is Cthulhu's running mate, and will they have the courage to do what must be done. Will need to know befo

Guess it depends a lot on the size and tech of the TV. Tank does use a crazy small amount of power, though. Calculated it out and it was just over 2amps if everything was going full on. It’s a 25g for the record.

Gotta love those efficiency gains. I still remember my old halides literally melting my skin and also melting my cross brace that was 15” below it. I could have roasted a chicken with that wasted heat energy!

So ~250w 24/7.

I would guess that many many people have larger tanks

Even with his 25g, unless he leaves 4 TVs running all day…

 

[MnFish1]

Really, we both know nothing is 100% certain…What I said was meant to be just that; prejudiced and sarcastic. Things are getting so bad and divisive that its assumed if you believe in “this” you also believe in “that”
…… so sure not 100% of Newsmax viewers are against Climate Change ….. But if you knew someone only watched Fox or Newsmax how much would you bet on it?

NO clue - I'm glad you've made your decision.

 

[Doctorgori]

I originally posted a very interesting interactive map which included coral densities going all the way up the eastern seaboard but ended up deleting it when I realized that people just couldn’t help but turn this isn’t another “man doesn’t impact it” style soapbox thread.

Thread has lost its purpose and spiralled into exactly what I expected it would but wanted to avoid, given the nature of the internet. There are a zillion threads on people arguing mans impact.

Would have been nice to have one specifically about reef impact.

OP To your point the whole climate change thing is a pointless argument …please post that map, it could prove useful ….

and @MnFish1 I stand by my “prejudice” that folks tend to go to the news or information that already reinforces the beliefs they already hold…true thats “Lumping” people, but I see little evidence people truly seeks facts that actually contradict or endanger their current beliefs …So yes I can sorta parse out the folks that listen to PBS vs Newsmax just from listening to them … I apologize for my faults

 

[Lebowski_]

So ~250w 24/7.


Even with his 25g, unless he leaves 4 TVs running all day…

My heaters, lights, ATO, wave makers don’t run 100% 24/7.

I calculated max load. I would imagine actual load would be significantly less.

 

[Tangs-A-Lot]

And yet somehow you are OK with the countless (not an exaggeration) number of "scientists" caught manipulating data, cherry picking data and hiding contradictory data, or outright making data up, to support their climate crisis opinion or other environmental causes.

The ozone hole nonsense was made up to secure a grant for the following year because funding was running out and they had nothing. It only took 2 decades to learn the truth...

Micheal Mann and his silly hockey stick model built with cherry picked tree ring data and fitted further with falsified data.. when the tree rings examined in whole actually contradicted much of his hypothesis. To this day, used as a basis for much of the conclusions being drawn about climate and the models that drive the conclusions.

The IPCC and the several times they have been caught making crap up or covering up exculpatory or discrediting data. then the investigations that said they didn't lie, getting caught covering up that they did lie... Peer reviewed lies, but the means justifies the end we are told.

NOAA and EPA, etc. discarding low "anomaly" buoy and land based temperature data while keep high "anomaly" buoy and land based temperature data, so as to nudge up averages.

The "consensus" lists of scientists and non-qualified people similar to what you indicated above, but tied to "green" funded initiatives, investments and startups.

We can cite examples on both sides, almost endlessly.

The point being that there is always an agenda, and often very little truth. Be careful what you consume as science, because very little of it really is.

You must trust the $€ien€e !!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Let's get down to ther brass tacks people, we can solve this;-) How much of the human population needs to "expire", and how do we decide who?

I always thought Logan's Run was pretty cool...

Though I wonder if it hurts having that light thingy in your hand.

 

[Lebowski_]

You must trust the $€ien€e !!

Lol this more or less sums up most of the posters here right now, for better or worse…thanks.

 

[MnFish1]

I doubt that. TVs only use 60-100w on average. Even if you watch a lot of TV it’s not on 24/7. I’m not judging. I’m literally idling a diesel generator right now just keep it oiled. It’s cool though. Ill buy offset credits tomorrow.

Let's eliminate Dishwashers. Washing machines. Dryers (everyone can put a hanger up) - 1 TV per house. Mandate - maximum heat in winter, minimum temp in summer. Swimming pool (no way) - hot tub (no way), and multiple other things. Any of us could get by without these things. right now - and if everyone in the US turned everything off - there would be no difference IMHO - as to the extent of climate change. Oh - and houses without proper insulation - mandated correction, There could be a lot of mandates. None of which would improve the coral in the ocean

 

[The_Paradox]

My heaters, lights, ATO, wave makers don’t run 100% 24/7.

I calculated max load. I would imagine actual load would be significantly less.

I doubt it. I’m not picking but most people do not properly calculate loads or bother to clamp them. Just because a light is 40w does not mean it is 0.3a at 120v.

 

[Reefering1]

I always thought Logan's Run was pretty cool...

Though I wonder if it hurts having that light thingy in your hand.

Lol. That could work. Maybe some kind of "hunger games" situation. That way, at least, everyone has a chance..

 

[Lebowski_]

Hey MN, Paradox and the rest of the team - you guys are right. Maybe you guys could start a thread to take your victory slap and give each other high fives while posting Greta memes, and those of us who want to discuss the thread topic could do so?

 

[MoshJosh]

I have seen a few post that X, Y, or Z are far bigger problems than climate change. I think this is a valuable perspective, and perspective in of it self is valuable, but I don't think X, Y, Z, and climate change need to be mutually exclusive.

I don't think it's as simple as I am about to say, but I am not a good enough writer to convey it better haha

IMHO we should just do our best with the resources we have (the earth) without being dogmatic and while maintaining a sense of normalcy/satisfaction in our lives. Lets do all the things, not pollute, try to lower our emissions, etc. on a micro scale (while remaining pragmatic), vote for policies you believe will reflect the aforementioned attitude on a macro scale.

Sorry. . . sounds a bit "tree-huggery". . . haha