The difference between ich & velvet

[Humblefish]

Does this mean I should not add any fish to this tank as velvet is waiting for new fish, inverts etc. and my surviving fish are now immune?

Velvet requires a 6 week fallow (fishless) period in the DT to eradicate.

If the wrasse remained in the DT and did not get treatment, odds are he has built up immunity. However, he is still a carrier capable of infecting other fish.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I believe I got velvet as I lost 13 fish in 3 days Was able to pull out all fish but my Lubbock wrasse. Cardinal and damsel survived in QT. Wrasse did not get treatment. Was unable to keep DT fallow due to wrasse. Did not think of shrimp, inverts or corals in the DT carrying velvet. Have moved cardinal& damsel back. Does this mean I should not add any fish to this tank as velvet is waiting for new fish, inverts etc. and my surviving fish are now immune?

Unless the tank was run fallow for at least 6 weeks, any new fish you add will be subject to infestation.

Inverts can carry encysted parasites, but aren't afflicted by the parasites themselves.

 

[HmoneyReefOkc]

Can you dose CP in a mixed reef tank?

 

[melypr1985]

Can you dose CP in a mixed reef tank?

No, CP is not reef safe and should only be used in a QT.

 

[Sashaka]

Thanks Humblefish! Your pictures and my recent visit to my LFSs have really helped me see the subtle difference between ick and velvet.

Of the LFSs near me, both have a current outbreak of velvet. The one LFS owner even told me the fish I questioned him about had velvet...yet the fish was still for sale. Sigh.

The only thing good that came out of that visit is that I was able to see velvet up close and personal.

Question: Doesn't ick look like velvet when the fish has a very bad infestation? I know the size of the white spots are larger with ick, but I was wondering if late stages of ick or really bad infestations could be confused with velvet? Thanks.

 

[Humblefish]

Question: Doesn't ick look like velvet when the fish has a very bad infestation? I know the size of the white spots are larger with ick, but I was wondering if late stages of ick or really bad infestations could be confused with velvet? Thanks.

You’re unlikely to see the amount of white dots caused by velvet on a fish with ich. Ich trophonts are spaced out on a fish and can usually still be counted even if symptoms are severe; whereas fish with velvet are often completely covered as symptoms progress.

HOWEVER, certain species of fish are exceptions to this rule - notably Acanthurus Tangs. This genus has a very thin slime coat which affords it little protection from parasites, so ich infestations may be severe.

 

[Sashaka]

HOWEVER, certain species of fish are exceptions to this rule - notably Acanthurus Tangs.

Thank you, Humblefish, for your response. I guess for a newbie like me, I will not be able to diagnose fish such as tangs with any assurance, but your description seems clear enough for other fish species. My guess is I'm fighting brook again or velvet...or both. I may even have had uronema on the little Hippo tang that went into quarantine. I haven't ruled that out for the white patches. Unfortunately, the tang passed this morning. I thought it was going to make it after the Formalin dip, but it just would not eat anymore. It started swimming..no spinning..when it tried to swim about a week later and then just died a few days later. I don't know if it was too late to save it or if I poisoned it with too much Formlin (50 min bath). In any event, it was too weak to withstand my treatment. I'm heartbroken, but I still have a whole tank of fish that still need saving, so I have to concentrate on them now. It's times like this that I wonder why I even got into this hobby? No one tells the newbie about the heartache involved, just the joys of keeping saltwater.

 

[Humblefish]

It's times like this that I wonder why I even got into this hobby? No one tells the newbie about the heartache involved, just the joys of keeping saltwater.

When you visit a LFS, you’ll hear a lot of “happy talk”. Mentioning fish diseases, coral pests, nuisance algae, etc. is bad for business. You’ve got to search on the Internet to find the true pros vs. cons. Not saying believe everything you read, but if you see something being mentioned over & over again than odds are there is some validity to it.

 

[deedubz]

@Humblefish
You're awesome man! Always posting useful/helpful information and always willing to help us all out...

You should get the into business of selling quarantined fish

 

[Sashaka]

When you visit a LFS, you’ll hear a lot of “happy talk”. Mentioning fish diseases, coral pests, nuisance algae, etc. is bad for business. You’ve got to search on the Internet to find the true pros vs. cons. Not saying believe everything you read, but if you see something being mentioned over & over again than odds are there is some validity to it.

I really appreciate your expert help, Humblefish! And you are right...research is essential. That is why I'm so grateful to the R2R community. I've learned more useful information here since July when I joined than in the previous two years of researching random sites and information on my own. Thank you Humblefish and R2R community for all you do to help people like me understand this hobby and dispel all the myths. I finally feel I can trust the advice I get online (ie here)! This place is awesome!

BTW, if you ever do get in the business of selling fish, let us/me know. I'll be one of the first in line to buy some!

 

[1979fishgeek]

Im embarrass to say I’m currently battling a infestation of something after stupidly trusting when I should have known better. Idiot complacent thing to do, very annoyed with myself!

I removed all my fish to a QT and started a fallow period on Saturday. I still can’t tell if I’m batting ick or velvet, only they Tangs show symptoms so I’m assuming ick but there are so many spots it looks like velvet! I’ve started to lower the salinity down, but slowly as I don’t want to kill off the bacteria on the live rock I took from the main display which I am also re-seeding with bacteria as the SG lowers (300l system @25l of fresh water waterchange per day). If it is velvet and not ick (assuming I’ll know once I get the SG down low enough) is there anything I can use to treat velvet or resistant ick that won’t be absorbed long term into the rock work? I’d like to reuse the rock in a reef again one day?

 

[RandalV]

I unfortunately misdiagnosed a little over a year ago and lost over half of my fish before realizing it wasn’t ick . Got the rest of my fish out of tank and treated with copper .

 

[deedubz]

Im embarrass to say I’m currently battling a infestation of something after stupidly trusting when I should have known better. Idiot complacent thing to do, very annoyed with myself!

I removed all my fish to a QT and started a fallow period on Saturday. I still can’t tell if I’m batting ick or velvet, only they Tangs show symptoms so I’m assuming ick but there are so many spots it looks like velvet! I’ve started to lower the salinity down, but slowly as I don’t want to kill off the bacteria on the live rock I took from the main display which I am also re-seeding with bacteria as the SG lowers (300l system @25l of fresh water waterchange per day). If it is velvet and not ick (assuming I’ll know once I get the SG down low enough) is there anything I can use to treat velvet or resistant ick that won’t be absorbed long term into the rock work? I’d like to reuse the rock in a reef again one day?

Depending on what types of fish you have your options are copper or CP. Hypo doesn't treat velvet and it's not reliable for ich either, as there's proven to be hypo resistant strains. Your best bet is to get some bottled bacteria and soak a sponge/biomax in it overnight. I'd also grab an ammonia alert badge and/or a seachem ammonia test kit...otherwise with a lot of the other kits you'll get a false positive

 

[srad750c]

Does coral dip or Bayer have any effect on it? My LFS QT's all their fish and treats with copper and prezi. So I don't. But every once in a while I just grab a couple snails or crabs and toss them in. Obviously the copper will kill them so what do you do to QT them? Just wait and see if they die or not?

Coral dips or Bayer won’t treat either of them. As far as your inverts, patience and QT with no chems for 30 days. Cross your fingers. I’ve been lucky over the years. I’ve only had one major kill off due to fish or invert intro. It was a sad and expensive situation.

 

[srad750c]

I believe I got velvet as I lost 13 fish in 3 days Was able to pull out all fish but my Lubbock wrasse. Cardinal and damsel survived in QT. Wrasse did not get treatment. Was unable to keep DT fallow due to wrasse. Did not think of shrimp, inverts or corals in the DT carrying velvet. Have moved cardinal& damsel back. Does this mean I should not add any fish to this tank as velvet is waiting for new fish, inverts etc. and my surviving fish are now immune?

I would wait a minimum of 60 days before you try another fish, and your existing fish are not immune to another outbreak but they are strong fish. They can handle most diseases but it’s not a guarantee.

 

[HotRocks]

Im embarrass to say I’m currently battling a infestation of something after stupidly trusting when I should have known better. Idiot complacent thing to do, very annoyed with myself!

I removed all my fish to a QT and started a fallow period on Saturday. I still can’t tell if I’m batting ick or velvet, only they Tangs show symptoms so I’m assuming ick but there are so many spots it looks like velvet! I’ve started to lower the salinity down, but slowly as I don’t want to kill off the bacteria on the live rock I took from the main display which I am also re-seeding with bacteria as the SG lowers (300l system @25l of fresh water waterchange per day). If it is velvet and not ick (assuming I’ll know once I get the SG down low enough) is there anything I can use to treat velvet or resistant ick that won’t be absorbed long term into the rock work? I’d like to reuse the rock in a reef again one day?

The best thing you can do is let your DT sit fallow for 76 days. You don't have to lower the salinity. Just keep it fishless. Then there is no worry. Removing the fish breaks the life cycle of the parasite, starving them out.

If you post pictures of your fish showing physical symptoms, we can most likely help you determine what you are dealing with. You said some fish we're covered, if this progressed quickly, like over a week's time it's most likely velvet.

 

[Sashaka]

Im embarrass to say I’m currently battling a infestation of something after stupidly trusting

Trusting those who sell a product does not seem unreasonable to me. The purchase of a fish is a consumer transaction after all! I trusted for my first few years of fish keeping too and never had a problem. Then WHAM! Now all I see are problems. Every fish I get in seems to carry some pathogen. ;Rage I think the big suppliers who filter all their stock down to the little mom and pop shops and the big online stores need to do more to ensure their fish are getting to the customer with fewer issues. I know no one can guarantee all fish completely clean of any pathogens, but selling fish (like my lfs) with known velvet in the system is vile. It seems buying sick fish is the norm, now.

Why? My guess is it's big business. People like me continue to repurchase when a sick batch of fish dies. :mad: Short of learning how to scuba dive, I'm stuck with this flawed system. Any ideas about what we can do about it? I'm all ears!

 

[HotRocks]

Trusting those who sell a product does not seem unreasonable to me. The purchase of a fish is a consumer transaction after all! I trusted for my first few years of fish keeping too and never had a problem. Then WHAM! Now all I see are problems. Every fish I get in seems to carry some pathogen. ;Rage I think the big suppliers who filter all their stock down to the little mom and pop shops and the big online stores need to do more to ensure their fish are getting to the customer with fewer issues. I know no one can guarantee all fish completely clean of any pathogens, but selling fish (like my lfs) with known velvet in the system is vile. It seems buying sick fish is the norm, now.

Why? My guess is it's big business. People like me continue to repurchase when a sick batch of fish dies. :mad: Short of learning how to scuba dive, I'm stuck with this flawed system. Any ideas about what we can do about it? I'm all ears!

Buy fish from @Humblefish! He will soon be selling disease free fish. Yep that's right, acclimate straight to the DT from the box!

 

[Sashaka]

"Buy fish from @Humblefish!" quote from Hotrocks

Ha! Hanna Instruments thought they got busy fast! Is Humblefish up for the influx of orders!

 

[HotRocks]

Ha! Hanna Instruments thought they got busy fast! Is Humblefish is up for the influx of orders!

I'm sure he has a very long list of wish lists. One can only do so much. Not to mention opening up a retail store and starting a business in general is extremely time consuming. Lots of hurdles. He knows what he is up against. High demand is what will create success. This hobby requires an abundance of patience. People will be fine waiting I'm sure!