This hobby is getting out of control with costs

[Wasabiroot]

In the early 2000 years I paid $338 for an MP-60
How do manufacturers justify these increases without saying " we are Not getting taken advantage of" ?

Just throwing this out there. Not that an MP-60 still isn't overpriced at 830 currently. But using prices from 20 years ago can be misleading.

A lot of the higher costs seem to be companies IMMEDIATELY passing their recently increased overhead on to the consumer, and price increases due to "supply chain issues" that may not even exist anymore - which mysteriously are larger than inflation would predict. Some companies are just trying to see what profit margins they can get away with for as long as possible without explaining it to the consumer in a way that reflects reality. Unfortunately, other companies see prices go up with corresponding profits and seek to mimic that success. It may come across as dismissive to say it's capitalism, but pretending otherwise is silly. The unfortunate part is people have less money than ever.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Just throwing this out there. Not that an MP-60 still isn't overpriced at 830 currently. But using prices from 20 years ago can be misleading.

A lot of the higher costs seem to be companies IMMEDIATELY passing their recently increased overhead on to the consumer, and price increases due to "supply chain issues" that may not even exist anymore - which mysteriously are larger than inflation would predict. Some companies are just trying to see what profit margins they can get away with for as long as possible without explaining it to the consumer in a way that reflects reality. Unfortunately, other companies see prices go up with corresponding profits and seek to mimic that success. It may come across as dismissive to say it's capitalism, but pretending otherwise is silly. The unfortunate part is people have less money than ever.

The point made is not so much the pricing but that there is no significant change in design other than mobious/wifi ready at a significant jump

 

[ShepherdReefer]

Yep! I feel your pain. Our new 190 has set us back, and we still have more to get.

 

[Wasabiroot]

The point made is not so much the pricing but that there is no significant change in design other than mobious/wifi ready at a significant jump

For sure! I agree with the jist of your post. I have been eyeing a 150g external overflow tank/stand for the last two years or so. It's gone up almost 800 bucks. Oof

 

[paintman]

It's not so much the price that erks me. It's the quality. just about everything in this hobby is junk. Whats the saying, you get less for more? Just look at a Big Mac nowadays. I don't know how Mcdonalds gets away with calling it a burger. hell they should call the beef paties traceing paper. The sandwich is closer to a salad then it is a burger. But i digress.

 

[Pico bam]

Paid 1000$ for a used 270gallon tank insane
125$ ea for 2 6foot xho reefbrites crazy
450$ for a 5ft ati powermodule expensive
100$ for a pile of big jebao's maybe reasonableish
400$ 2 vectra L1s one is still brand new... ridiculous
500$ 125w pentai uv sterilizer mind blowing

I buy all used equipment best deals I can find still expensive. I pay about a halve to a quarter of the new price. Still go way over budget.

I could go and say why everything is expensive In my opinion. Or go on how none of it lasts or isn't even repairable.

 

[vlangel]

I think the hobby was a lot more simple in the early 2000s also. Less promotional product videos. Less testing equipment. Less tech overall. It really was more of the KISS method than it is now. I think majority of people were quite successful with a very short list of key elements that can be counted on one hand: 1. Flow, 2. Light (VHO anyone? T5, halide), 3. old mindset of 10-20% WC weekly, 4. feed and export with simple methods like protein skimming and fuge.

It's easy to get sucked into the current fads in the hobby. I think you could go back to the above 5 steps with cheaper version of those components than what's currently promoted and have major success at a significant cost reduction.

I am old school, started my tank in the late 1990s. I maintenanced tanks for 5-6 years, all of them using the KISS philosophy of that short list list of key elements and it is successful. I still run my own tank very simply and I consider it a success.

 

[BirdFish5000]

That is absolutely a successful tank. Beautiful.

 

[dlsorensen]

I also feel like the cost makes many new enthusiasts go small or nano. Remember back in the day when these were considered more challenging because of the easy swing in disastrous parameters? Pepperidge Farms remembers! I also feel that this makes many of these new hobbyists experience failure and leave the hobby altogether. I remember my first 75g SW tank, sump, VHO lights, return, protein skimmer, stand and canopy cost less then my current LED lights alone.

 

[vlangel]

I am old school, started my tank in the late 1990s. I maintenanced tanks for 5-6 years, all of them using the KISS philosophy of that short list list of key elements and it is successful. I still run my own tank very simply and I consider it a success.

Oh dear, as I read this post again, it makes it sound like this particular tank was started in the late 90s. Sorry, that is not true, (although some of the rock in this tank and one cabbage leather is from then). I should have said, "I am old school and started my reef tank journey in the late 90s" I transferred stuff and have had 4 tanks altogether since 1986. This particular one was set up in 2016. I just wanted to come clean, LOL.

 

[piranhaman00]

I've been in reef keeping about 20 years now, and installation and maintenance is my full time job, so I feel quite in tune with costs and their increases over the last 10 or so years. Beyond inflation or whatever other economics that drive prices for everything, I've noticed the biggest rise in prices in our industry are likely due to 2 main factors:

1.) Social media. Already mentioned several times, but yeah, keeping up with the Jones's (Joneses? Jonesus?) has hit an all time high with most people heavily involved in social media, and constantly seeing "better" systems. People need the newest and greatest things because X uses one and has crazy acros, or Y doses it, and his torches are insane!

It even extends to the livestock within the tanks. So many tanks have become glowing blue trophy cases to show off expensive LPS. Everywhere I look on social media is packed out tanks of all the name brand torches, fancy scolymia, etc. that show zero growth. People treat them like a bouquet of flowers rather than a living, growing ecosystem. It's just fancy rockscapes with each little pedestal holding a $500-$1200 coral to show off just because the name.

2.) The (3 letter acronym) sales engine. A certain company caught the wave of social media at just the right time to become a massive conglomerate at this point. We all know their videos and products, and most their videos do contain good information, especially for new hobbyists. However, this is where it becomes a bit predatory on new reefers, they become the sole source of information, either through videos or their social media. People fail to realize almost all their videos are sales pitches for products they carry. They even create videos to drive demand one way or another (i.e. poorly reviewing phillips coral care gen 2, stopping carrying it, then praising the neptune sky as soon as it dropped, despite it being at the same price point and a poorer performing light). But they create this situation where a hobbyist trusts them, they say a neptune, a trident, a DOS, and a DDR are needed to bring the red sea tank (purchased from them) to the next level.

People used to learn from other people in the hobby, books, clubs with speakers, etc. but I'd bet over 90% of newer hobbyists post 2018 were shown the ropes and relied (if not still rely) heavily on this sales engine. When the lesson is almost always buy another product, its not wonder the prices keep going up.

This is spot on.

Still money we’ll spent then on drugs or women
From younger years

Hits home

I use horticulture t5 and Jebao everything else, works good for me

 

[old_lady_4am]

Its bad enough we have reached the age of $800-$1200 lights, Ive seen test equipment approaching the $200 mark, 110 gallon Tanks for $4000-5000 and now another skimmer released by Adaptive reef starting at $769.00 !!!
Add the cost of fish and coral which is out of control and it questions Who can afford this and the impact on a new hobbyist that wants a reef tank

Welcome to the new norm in every aspect of

Its bad enough we have reached the age of $800-$1200 lights, Ive seen test equipment approaching the $200 mark, 110 gallon Tanks for $4000-5000 and now another skimmer released by Adaptive reef starting at $769.00 !!!
Add the cost of fish and coral which is out of control and it questions Who can afford this and the impact on a new hobbyist that wants a reef tank

Welcome to the new order!

 

[unchaotic]

At least with guns, I have a tangible collection, a commodity with minimal overhead after initial purchase. Reefing is a money pit, continuously.

I bought a Taurus PT1911. Had it for 3-5 years, made some sweet looking custom grips for it, and sold it for a profit. I think it’s fair to say guns are an investment. Not so much with reefing equipment.

 

[SpyC]

I bought a Taurus PT1911. Had it for 3-5 years, made some sweet looking custom grips for it, and sold it for a profit. I think it’s fair to say guns are an investment. Not so much with reefing equipment.

Really depends on what you have. I had a number of custom builds for higher end and precision shooters. Was a nightmare to sell and everyone wanted to lowball you. Now if you went out and purchased a prebuilt folks would be all about. Just don't trust custom work I guess. Not like the work is difficult.

 

[dstockwell]

I would never pay $800 for a wavemaker.

 

[Crofty]

I've been in reef keeping about 20 years now, and installation and maintenance is my full time job, so I feel quite in tune with costs and their increases over the last 10 or so years. Beyond inflation or whatever other economics that drive prices for everything, I've noticed the biggest rise in prices in our industry are likely due to 2 main factors:

1.) Social media. Already mentioned several times, but yeah, keeping up with the Jones's (Joneses? Jonesus?) has hit an all time high with most people heavily involved in social media, and constantly seeing "better" systems. People need the newest and greatest things because X uses one and has crazy acros, or Y doses it, and his torches are insane!

It even extends to the livestock within the tanks. So many tanks have become glowing blue trophy cases to show off expensive LPS. Everywhere I look on social media is packed out tanks of all the name brand torches, fancy scolymia, etc. that show zero growth. People treat them like a bouquet of flowers rather than a living, growing ecosystem. It's just fancy rockscapes with each little pedestal holding a $500-$1200 coral to show off just because the name.

2.) The (3 letter acronym) sales engine. A certain company caught the wave of social media at just the right time to become a massive conglomerate at this point. We all know their videos and products, and most their videos do contain good information, especially for new hobbyists. However, this is where it becomes a bit predatory on new reefers, they become the sole source of information, either through videos or their social media. People fail to realize almost all their videos are sales pitches for products they carry. They even create videos to drive demand one way or another (i.e. poorly reviewing phillips coral care gen 2, stopping carrying it, then praising the neptune sky as soon as it dropped, despite it being at the same price point and a poorer performing light). But they create this situation where a hobbyist trusts them, they say a neptune, a trident, a DOS, and a DDR are needed to bring the red sea tank (purchased from them) to the next level.

People used to learn from other people in the hobby, books, clubs with speakers, etc. but I'd bet over 90% of newer hobbyists post 2018 were shown the ropes and relied (if not still rely) heavily on this sales engine. When the lesson is almost always buy another product, its not wonder the prices keep going up.

The above post nailed it.

I've only been in this hobby a few months, having decided to resurrect my kid's old AIO he successfully kept up for many years. Of course I turned to the internet to teach myself how to get started. Forums and a certain online vendor's convenient 'how to' videos all say the same thing. I needed better lighting, flow, skimmer, temperature control, testing, etc, etc, to have a successful reef tank.

Fast forward a couple months and many $$ in upgrades later, my wife makes the comment that the tank looks nice with the new corals and a few fish - allmost exactly the same as when my son had it using the original gear. Had to think about that for a minute before realizing that none of those upgrades were really necessary for a reef tank with typical corals and fish. I had totally got sucked into a rabbit hole of 'have to have' instead of 'nice to have'.

That said, I really enjoyed making improvements to my very modest setup and it was worth the money to me if only for that reason
But I can now see how easy it can be for someone to think they have to spend big just to get started and be successful. And as long as people have the disposable income I don't see that changing.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Yeah, everything has gotten a lot more expensive then when I started over two decades ago, however, a lot of the gear is way more complicated nowadays which will definitely lead to higher costs.
I mean, I ran full blown sps tank with only halides+T5’s, some tunze pumps, a Deltec skimmer, a dosing pump and a heater back then. It was still expensive (more so since I was 15 at the time) but nothing like what I’ve spent on my current setup:

I run a bunch of stuff that isn’t really needed to have a successful reef tank. If I setup a tank like I had 15 years ago I’m fairly sure the cost wouldn’t be that bad, even nowadays.

Speaking with a manufacturer of aquarium lighting the costs of chips for their fixtures has risen with about 3000%…or they would have to wait about 6 months for a delivery and couldn’t make any light during that time.
That’s not something that’s happening with every single piece of gear but it adds to the problem.

Now, livestock prices are a different story…those prices have just gone bonkers without any real reason. There are however still good deals on maricultured stuff around, at least here in Europe.

 

[Wasabiroot]

Paid 1000$ for a used 270gallon tank insane
125$ ea for 2 6foot xho reefbrites crazy
450$ for a 5ft ati powermodule expensive
100$ for a pile of big jebao's maybe reasonableish
400$ 2 vectra L1s one is still brand new... ridiculous
500$ 125w pentai uv sterilizer mind blowing

I buy all used equipment best deals I can find still expensive. I pay about a halve to a quarter of the new price. Still go way over budget.

I could go and say why everything is expensive In my opinion. Or go on how none of it lasts or isn't even repairable.

I think buying used needs to be emphasized more. Bought a 240g acrylic for 600 a few years ago. Needed polishing which made a summer project, but saved a ton of money vs new.

 

[Ironwill723]

Yeah, everything has gotten a lot more expensive then when I started over two decades ago, however, a lot of the gear is way more complicated nowadays which will definitely lead to higher costs.
I mean, I ran full blown sps tank with only halides+T5’s, some tunze pumps, a Deltec skimmer, a dosing pump and a heater back then. It was still expensive (more so since I was 15 at the time) but nothing like what I’ve spent on my current setup:

I run a bunch of stuff that isn’t really needed to have a successful reef tank. If I setup a tank like I had 15 years ago I’m fairly sure the cost wouldn’t be that bad, even nowadays.

Speaking with a manufacturer of aquarium lighting the costs of chips for their fixtures has risen with about 3000%…or they would have to wait about 6 months for a delivery and couldn’t make any light during that time.
That’s not something that’s happening with every single piece of gear but it adds to the problem.

Now, livestock prices are a different story…those prices have just gone bonkers without any real reason. There are however still good deals on maricultured stuff around, at least here in Europe.

Saw your youtube video the other day. Awesome tank. Are you going to sell that current light fixture when you upgrade?

 

[vlangel]

I think buying used needs to be emphasized more. Bought a 240g acrylic for 600 a few years ago. Needed polishing which made a summer project, but saved a ton of money vs new.

Even years ago I bought used stuff which helped me break into the hobby.