True Tale of Hippo, itch and immunity

[Nemo&Friends]

This is what just happen to my hippo and I want to share it.

I have my hippo for 4 years, got it in November 2019, along with a six line wrasse.
They were the last fish added. My tank is a 125G, 6' long and I inherited it around 13 years ago along with a four stripe damsel which is still with me.
I have never quarantined anything.
I have no coral, but I do have peppermint shrimps, hermits and various snails.

I went out of town for 2 weeks in October and came back on the 30th. My daughter fed the fish daily during that time.
When I came back everything looked fine.
However on the second of November, my hippo behavior was strange. He swam like he was nervous, and hid more, but ate fine. On the third, something was definitely wrong, behavior was very off and I started to see quite a lot of white dots. On November 4th, it was more white than blue, absolutely covered with ich. Never saw him like that before, nor any fish.
It was hiding most of the time, but ate very well. No other fish showed any sign of ich. I was getting very concerned, and pondered what to do. I had no medicine, and no testing device. I did have a 20 G aquarium with lots of macro algae and snails in it, but no fish. It has been fish less for 2 years, so I was wondering if I should try to catch my hippo and put it in that tank.
But, ich was in the tank anyway, and not other fish were affected. No way all my other fish would fit in that small tank, and the rabbit fish would have decimated my algae in not time. Plus I did not want to stress my hippo any more nor the other fish in trying to catch it. I had seen my hippo with some ich on him, on and off, so I decided to see if he could cure himself.
Plus my hippo was still eating very well, though hiding all the time except at feeding.
He was still hiding and eating on the 5th, did not looked worse. On the 6th he looked a little better, and I was wondering if I was imagining it. On the 7th, a lot of the ich had disappear, and fish was a lot more active, though not back to normal.
20 days later, and my hippo is now back to its normal self, very active. The ich is gone.
I am convince that his immune system won, I did not give him any treatment, did not even changed the water.
I feed my fish a variety of Hikari frozen food, LRS fish frenzy and nori, plus fresh macro algae when I need to trim my other tank. I fed only LRS food while my hippo was sick.
I know ich have cycle, so that is why I waited before writing about it. But right now my fish look completely cured, and no other fish have been affected.
I am still watching him, and will see if it happens again. I have no idea why it happened suddenly, as nothing was added recently in the tank. But I did loose a green chromis recently.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I have no idea why it happened suddenly, as nothing was added recently in the tank.

If you never quarantined, then ich has probably been in your tank for years.

From what I've seen with ich management on here, ich will basically remain managed and under control (seemingly nonexistent in the tank) as long the fish are in excellent health (and as long as the outbreak doesn't get too bad for the tank - not necessarily for the individual fish, but for the tank as a whole). As soon as a fish gets stressed/weakened, however, there will be an outbreak like you just had with your tang.

To say it another way, your tang isn't really cured, it's just healthy enough to hold the parasites at bay at the moment. Your other fish likely have ich too and are just asymptomatic at the moment like your tang. So, if something stresses/weakens them, you'll have another outbreak that seemingly appears from nowhere. To prevent another outbreak, you have to keep the fish in great health - low stress, good food (LRS and macroalgae are great; some of Hikari's stuff is really good too - like their Mega Marine line - but some of their other marine-oriented food options aren't as good from what I recall), good water quality, etc. are key.

This is why I typically suggest for people who are considering not quarantining to look at some of Paul B's ich management stuff, as he talks about good care being necessary for good fish health too. (This is also why I typically suggest that newcomers to the hobby buy pre-quarantined fish if they don't want to do a full, medicated QT - fish that don't have diseases/parasites should be a lot harder to accidentally kill, as they won't have a potentially lethal disease outbreak every time the aquarist makes a mistake while learning the ropes).

 

[Paul B]

Nemo&Friends. Your fish are most likely immune now as mine have been for almost 50 years. You are a good fish keeper and your fish love you for not stressing them with quarantine and poisons.

 

[Beefyreefy]

it’s funny because often people will say it’s impossible to keep a hippo tang with out a chemical QT first… your experience is the same
as mine… ICH is nothing to worry about. I’m pretty sure if you pull a hippo out that has a significant ICH, and put it in a foriegn and scary tank with copper it will die. I personally have toyed with quarantine both chemical and observational and my survival rate is always best with acclimating and dumping straight into my healthy reef tank.

 

[Paul B]

I have been keeping Hippo's for decades and never medicated or quarantined one. The longest I had one live was about 10 years but I know they can live a lot longer.

 

[Beefyreefy]

I have been keeping Hippo's for decades and never medicated or quarantined one. The longest I had one live was about 10 years but I know they can live a lot longer.

I’m not sure if I ever told you PaulB, but your methods have been an inspiration to my reefkeeping style. I’ve been running my main DT set up for 10 years and have never lost a fish to disease. I’m a believer that diet, immunity and lack of stress paramount over eradication of pathogens. My biggest loss of livestock ever was due to a frayed wavemaker wire, but never has disease been an issue for me.

 

[Pickle_soup]

I’m not sure if I ever told you PaulB, but your methods have been an inspiration to my reefkeeping style. I’ve been running my main DT set up for 10 years and have never lost a fish to disease. I’m a believer that diet, immunity and lack of stress paramount over eradication of pathogens. My biggest loss of livestock ever was due to a frayed wavemaker wire, but never has disease been an issue for me.

it’s funny because often people will say it’s impossible to keep a hippo tang with out a chemical QT first… your experience is the same
as mine… ICH is nothing to worry about. I’m pretty sure if you pull a hippo out that has a significant ICH, and put it in a foriegn and scary tank with copper it will die. I personally have toyed with quarantine both chemical and observational and my survival rate is always best with acclimating and dumping straight into my healthy reef tank.

Sorry, but I am going to call BS on this one. The idea of just getting fish from LFS and throwing them into the tank with no health issues is BS, just because of the diet. Are you telling me I can fight off smallpox just by eating right and being relaxed? What you are saying is very irresponsible and new hobbyists will pay for it if they listen to you.

 

[piranhaman00]

It’s only been 20 days….wait until the cycle starts again.

 

[blecki]

I can fight off smallpox just by eating right and being relaxed?

Ich isn't really like smallpox. Naturally it's more like a mild cold in the wild, it's just in our tanks where the parasites get concentrated that it overwhelms the fish. Personally I think there's a relationship between the prevalence of the disease and starting tanks from sterile, quarantined conditions - not the condition of the fish, but the amount of pods and other critters. Unfortunately I don't think anyone is willing to purposefully introduce ich to their established reef tank to do a real study on it except Paul B so we'll have to take his word for it. (Also always wondered what affect having a lot of coral has on disease, since ich is the right size for coral to eat...)

In this case if there really hasn't been anything introduced in 4 years - no frags or inverts either - we have to assume ich was in there the whole time without symptoms, in which case there's no telling if OP will see a second outbreak or not when the tomonts hatch. Something stressed the tang out but if it's doing better now it could shake the reinfection off.

 

[Paul B]

Sorry, but I am going to call BS on this one. The idea of just getting fish from LFS and throwing them into the tank with no health issues is BS, just because of the diet. Are you telling me I can fight off smallpox just by eating right and being relaxed? What you are saying is very irresponsible and new hobbyists will pay for it if they listen to you.

I don't know, where did you get that from?

 

[Paul B]

I’m not sure if I ever told you PaulB, but your methods have been an inspiration to my reefkeeping style. I’ve been running my main DT set up for 10 years and have never lost a fish to disease.

See, if you tell people that, they will either think you are very lucky or lying.
Thats what people think when they hear "Ich Management" which really means healthy and immune.
They feel it is just a matter of food because thats all they read of a 12 page statement.

 

[JayM]

Sorry, but I am going to call BS on this one. The idea of just getting fish from LFS and throwing them into the tank with no health issues is BS, just because of the diet. Are you telling me I can fight off smallpox just by eating right and being relaxed? What you are saying is very irresponsible and new hobbyists will pay for it if they listen to you.

I'm pretty sure smallpox and ich isn't a fair comparison as far as the severity of the illness. But I can say with 100% confidence that being healthy and relatively stress-free absolutely helps all living things have a more robust immune system than being stressed and unhealthy.

 

[Pickle_soup]

I'm pretty sure smallpox and ich isn't a fair comparison as far as the severity of the illness. But I can say with 100% confidence that being healthy and relatively stress-free absolutely helps all living things have a more robust immune system than being stressed and unhealthy.

Smallpox mortality rate is about 30%. I would say, in a reef setting, a substantial infection will probably have similar mortality rates. Besides, we are not only talking about ich. Let's not exclude other popular killers in our tanks like brook, velvet, flukes, and Uronema. Considering the conditions that fish are exposed to during capture, transport, at wholesalers, dealers and LFS, they are continually stressed and exposed to a variety of illnesses. Taking that fish, without a QT is a massive risk, and for someone to suggest that it's their normal practice and they never lost a fish to an illness is straight up pile of (fill in the blank).

 

[Paul B]

Taking that fish, without a QT is a massive risk, and for someone to suggest that it's their normal practice and they never lost a fish to an illness is straight up pile of (fill in the blank).

My reef is 52 years old and some of the fish are over 30. Never quarantined or medicated and I never lost a fish to any communicable disease so I don't know how to fill in the blank except to say it is much more than food.

How old is your quarantined tank?

 

[JayM]

Smallpox mortality rate is about 30%. I would say, in a reef setting, a substantial infection will probably have similar mortality rates.

Maybe. But I stand by my statement that good overall health and minimizing stress are crucial for a healthy tank. Probably even more important than pharmaceuticals.

 

[blecki]

If I can state my un-testable theory yet again - we focus too much on fish immunity when we should focus on tank immunity.

That is - the individual fish's immune system is important; but the entire tank contributes to immunity when it comes to external parasites.

 

[Nemo&Friends]

Sorry, but I am going to call BS on this one. The idea of just getting fish from LFS and throwing them into the tank with no health issues is BS, just because of the diet.

Thank you for telling me that my true story is BS. You are free of course to doubt my story, but there are more than one way to skin a cat, and quite a few long term aquarists have had stories similar to mine to tell. I do not think the food cure the fish either, the immune system of the fish cured him.

My hippo was the last fish introduced 4 years ago, but I had added peppermint shrimp about 8 month ago and Halimeda from Golf Coast in August. I do not know why my fish suddenly became sick, I am very happy that he recovered, or at least seems to have done so this far. I doubt that shrimps or the algae are responsible for ich, as they were introduced quite a few month ago, with no ill effect.

I would not compare ich to small pox however, but to a cold or a flu. You get sick, and your immune system cure you, no need for medicine.
I did quarantined myself during Covid 19, and got the vaccine as soon as I could because I knew I had no immunity against it as it was a brand new disease. But fish and ich have coexisted for millenniums.

 

[Nemo&Friends]

Maybe. But I stand by my statement that good overall health and minimizing stress are crucial for a healthy tank. Probably even more important than pharmaceuticals.

I agree with you.
I am not sure I have a healthy tank as I do not do many of the time consuming work many of you seem to recommend or do. I guess as I have no corals, It is a lot less demanding.
The main thing I do is making sure that my tank is not overcrowded and is the right size for its inhabitant, that the fish are compatible with each other and mainly that they have tons of rocks with many places to hide completely at night.
This minimize the stress and probably help me in keeping my fish happy.

 

[00W]

Thank you so much for sharing this with us.

 

[blecki]

I am not sure I have a healthy tank as I do not do many of the time consuming work many of you seem to recommend or do. I guess as I have no corals, It is a lot less demanding.

Lots of people keep minimal maintenance tanks packed with coral, myself included. I haven't done a water change in over a year. The trick is really just to avoid all SPS except the most basic birdsnest and montis...