Trying to ask again, what makes Euphyllia flat, stubby, with open mouths? Torch and hammer showing mouths?

[VintageReefer]

I see no issue. I agree with the earlier comment, it might not be what you prefer but the torches have adapted and that’s what they want to do. It’s a living creature, it’s doing it for a reason, and it’s not a bad thing. Leave them alone.

My grail and knicks and pretty much all my torches go through phases. Sometimes very long and flowy, sometimes 1/3 the length. I don’t touch them or change anything. They eventually become long again.

Your feeding could be contributing. I’ve noticed this with a lot of my corals. If you feed, they can get smaller/inflate less. They feed on light + food. If you directly feed them they have less reason to inflate to get light or catch food. They will adapt based on their needs.

I’ve seen vendor photos with torch like this with the flat mouth area. In torch tanks with other torches that are long. At the end of the day, it’s going to do what it wants and needs

 

[Reef Puncher]

So what par do you have the torch at? And they definitely like more flow. Hammers just like to sway.

As previously stated run carbon.

I don’t directly feed my hammers.

What does the tissue on the skeleton look like?

I wouldn’t use API test for anything

How quickly did you go through that list of stuff you tried?
How long were they doing good before this happened?

Better photos in white light if you don’t have a filter for your camera

just an update. all my corals are back to normal now. no one ever posted a follow up on any other the other posts i found this same issue on.
It turns out the culprit was a bacterial infection. I know because i dosed cipro in my tank, then installed a UV sterilizer same time, and within 2 weeks they were fine. Just sucks i didnt think it was bacterial because i thought you had to see bacteria growing on them, like BJD is like long black stringy things that i just didnt see.
Sucks because if i had known sooner i wouldnt have lost 3 torches. it only affected my euphyllia which is wierd. but its solved now.

 

[Reef Puncher]

I see no issue. I agree with the earlier comment, it might not be what you prefer but the torches have adapted and that’s what they want to do. It’s a living creature, it’s doing it for a reason, and it’s not a bad thing. Leave them alone.

My grail and knicks and pretty much all my torches go through phases. Sometimes very long and flowy, sometimes 1/3 the length. I don’t touch them or change anything. They eventually become long again.

Your feeding could be contributing. I’ve noticed this with a lot of my corals. If you feed, they can get smaller/inflate less. They feed on light + food. If you directly feed them they have less reason to inflate to get light or catch food. They will adapt based on their needs.

I’ve seen vendor photos with torch like this with the flat mouth area. In torch tanks with other torches that are long. At the end of the day, it’s going to do what it wants and needs

not sure if it alerts, but i did a follow up. it was a bacterial infection. after cipro dosing and installing a UV sterilizer they are all back to normal looking now. there tentacles are all fully outstreched, i can no longer see their mouths, they arent flat open spaces anymore. just thought i would share if anyone else ever has this issue.

 

[Dburr1014]

It was cheap salt too, instant ocean. i was reading how instant ocean doesnt have great standards.

Where did you here this? LOL

 

[Reef Puncher]

Where did you here this? LOL

on a forum, fauna marin and red sea icp test every batch and release the results. ocean does not.

 

[Troylee]

on a forum, fauna marin and red sea icp test every batch and release the results. ocean does not.

So they don’t release test standards so you assume it’s junk salt.. hmmmm… it’s been around longer than any salt and millions of tanks use it including mine without any issues lol..

 

[VintageReefer]

not sure if it alerts, but i did a follow up. it was a bacterial infection. after cipro dosing and installing a UV sterilizer they are all back to normal looking now. there tentacles are all fully outstreched, i can no longer see their mouths, they arent flat open spaces anymore. just thought i would share if anyone else ever has this issue.

Thanks for notifying me, I guess you had some kind of internal infection that was in an early stage in these hammers. I’m glad you were able to resolve it !

 

[Reefing_addiction]

thats what i was thinking. i was thinking either
A.) some sort of parameter im not seeing
B.) maybe some like iron levels or some wierd metal or mineral was high

It was cheap salt too, instant ocean. i was reading how instant ocean doesnt have great standards. so just last week i purchased a bucket of red sea coral pro. its just i read you cant swap salts just like that, it has to be slow and gradual....so thats the plan for now.....

Ok, so did you get an ICP test of your water? I would assume not.
My LFS uses IO and they maintain other peoples tanks. I use their salt water when I do water changes….. no issues

on a forum, fauna marin and red sea icp test every batch and release the results. ocean does not.

and has anyone ever run an ICP test on either of these after mixing it to verify what either of these companies states is accurate for that exact bucket. Also you have to mix your salt before you scoop any out so you can get a more even mixture of the stuff that’s in the bag/bucket.
I’m sure we could ask either company if they provide ICP test for that exact bucket or the much larger “production batch.” Even if it’s for the exact bucket …. The extra stuff they put in with the salt to give you all those elements settles at different rates. If your scooping from the top no guarantee you’ll get the exact mix that the manufacturer got when mixing it for the ICP test.



Again I use IO….have for the last 4+ years and no issues.

Did you ever add carbon? Or did you go straight to cipro and UV?

Can you tell me how much cipro you dosed? How many doses did you do? Did you dose your entire tank? And you were running UV while dosing cipro?

“Ciprofloxacin is degraded by UV and UV/H2O2 via multiple wavelengths UV-LEDs. 280 nm UV-LED/H2O2 has the highest efficiency for ciprofloxacin degradation. ”

So essentially what the article linked above states is UV light nullifies Cipro.


Did you know that if not dosed at the right mg per a liter for the right length of time that you are only helping create a more resistant bacteria? That at lower doses its not effective at all? Did you also know that cipros half-life in our tanks is even less than if you or I was to ingest it?



And because I believe no photos no proof…here is my tank using that “bad salt”. Don’t mind that fluffy wall hammer….which are notorious for being difficult and easily susceptible to bacterial issues

 

[VintageReefer]

I will add on that I’ve been using IO Reef Crystals as my only brand of salt for 20+ years. Not sure if op is using the regular purple stuff or the orange reef crystals

 

[Dburr1014]

on a forum, fauna marin and red sea icp test every batch and release the results. ocean does not.

Most public aquariums across the USA use IO salt.
They are the oldest maker of salt and probably sell the most amount of salt across the USA.

My wise grandfather used to say believe none of what you here and half of what you read.

 

[Reefing_addiction]

Most public aquariums across the USA use IO salt.
They are the oldest maker of salt and probably sell the most amount of salt across the USA.

My wise grandfather used to say believe none of what you here and half of what you read.

And fact check the poop out of the half you believe….i want multiple sources and I want to see the raw data how it was obtained and be able to repeat the process to obtain my own data


Well maybe that’s extreme

But I need a lot of evidence to make me believe things.

But your grandfather was a smart man

 

[Dburr1014]

William Kelley in 1964, is credited with making the first reef salt for aquarium use, Instant Ocean.

Instant Ocean Lobster Salt is based on the same formula as Instant Ocean Sea Salt — the most carefully formulated and manufactured synthetic sea salt in the world and the first choice of public aquariums, zoos and independent pet and tropical fish stores everywhere.

Instant Ocean Lobster Salt | Marineland®

www.marineland.com

 

[Reefing_addiction]

William Kelley in 1964, is credited with making the first reef salt for aquarium use, Instant Ocean.

Instant Ocean Lobster Salt is based on the same formula as Instant Ocean Sea Salt — the most carefully formulated and manufactured synthetic sea salt in the world and the first choice of public aquariums, zoos and independent pet and tropical fish stores everywhere.

Instant Ocean Lobster Salt | Marineland®

www.marineland.com

I do believe you and I could be friends

 

[Reefing_addiction]

I reached out to FM, RS, and IO today.

I asked IO do they know what their salt mixes at for the big 3 and trace elements.

I asked the other two if they test individual buckets or if they test “production batches”

From a cost stand point it would make more financial sense to test the production batch. Maybe even test it how many ever times that would equate to each selling unit they are able to get from a production batch.


We shall see what they say, if they respond

 

[Reefing_addiction]

Here is the response from Fauna Marin

 

[Reef Puncher]

So they don’t release test standards so you assume it’s junk salt.. hmmmm… it’s been around longer than any salt and millions of tanks use it including mine without any issues lol..

I used it, it worked, never said it was junk but again, you cant prove what trace minerals are in each batch, you cant verify, if other brands you CAN, then literally by definition they are superior. So i swapped to brands that i can 100% know whats going in. If you cant see the benefit to that then there is no help for you.

 

[Reef Puncher]

Ok, so did you get an ICP test of your water? I would assume not.
My LFS uses IO and they maintain other peoples tanks. I use their salt water when I do water changes….. no issues

and has anyone ever run an ICP test on either of these after mixing it to verify what either of these companies states is accurate for that exact bucket. Also you have to mix your salt before you scoop any out so you can get a more even mixture of the stuff that’s in the bag/bucket.
I’m sure we could ask either company if they provide ICP test for that exact bucket or the much larger “production batch.” Even if it’s for the exact bucket …. The extra stuff they put in with the salt to give you all those elements settles at different rates. If your scooping from the top no guarantee you’ll get the exact mix that the manufacturer got when mixing it for the ICP test.



Again I use IO….have for the last 4+ years and no issues.

Did you ever add carbon? Or did you go straight to cipro and UV?

Can you tell me how much cipro you dosed? How many doses did you do? Did you dose your entire tank? And you were running UV while dosing cipro?

“Ciprofloxacin is degraded by UV and UV/H2O2 via multiple wavelengths UV-LEDs. 280 nm UV-LED/H2O2 has the highest efficiency for ciprofloxacin degradation. ”

So essentially what the article linked above states is UV light nullifies Cipro.


Did you know that if not dosed at the right mg per a liter for the right length of time that you are only helping create a more resistant bacteria? That at lower doses its not effective at all? Did you also know that cipros half-life in our tanks is even less than if you or I was to ingest it?



And because I believe no photos no proof…here is my tank using that “bad salt”. Don’t mind that fluffy wall hammer….which are notorious for being difficult and easily susceptible to bacterial issues

God lots of sensitive people in here, like me saying instant ocean is cheaper is somehow a personal insult to you lol. I was spitballing potential issues since all my parameters were fine, i was merely tossing out ideas to hear feedback. Never said it was 100% at fault or a crap brand.

Ok, so did you get an ICP test of your water? I would assume not.
I did

Did you ever add carbon? Or did you go straight to cipro and UV?
I did try carbon first as well as polyfilter pads that leach out iron in case some metals were leaking.



Can you tell me how much cipro you dosed? How many doses did you do? Did you dose your entire tank? And you were running UV while dosing cipro?
“Ciprofloxacin is degraded by UV and UV/H2O2 via multiple wavelengths UV-LEDs. 280 nm UV-LED/H2O2 has the highest efficiency for ciprofloxacin degradation. ”
So essentially what the article linked above states is UV light nullifies Cipro.

I used 250mg split over a week, i followed online direction protocols. I did dose my tank. I didnt install the UV till after course was complete.
Just so you know, other people do research too......so you made a lot of assumptions there. Also seems like you are very against cipro but TONS of people have had good results. Of course there are risks to anything not natural you put in your tank but the risk vs reward was worth it in my case. And im so glad i did because all my corals are better now and nothing else explains why they improved and why my torches were melting, only Euphyllia were affected, my acros and goni's, which are NOTORIOUS to react to bad water parameters, were all fine.

 

[Troylee]

I used it, it worked, never said it was junk but again, you cant prove what trace minerals are in each batch, you cant verify, if other brands you CAN, then literally by definition they are superior. So i swapped to brands that i can 100% know whats going in. If you cant see the benefit to that then there is no help for you.

Nope no help for me lol… I mean explain this to @Randy Holmes-Farley who only used it for 20 years or what ever and is a chemist “reef chemist” at that lol…

 

[Reef Puncher]

Nope no help for me lol… I mean explain this to @Randy Holmes-Farley who only used it for 20 years or what ever and is a chemist “reef chemist” at that lol…

explain what exactly? I think your not catching on here, typical of people with lower cognitive functioning.....i never said it was junk, or bad, or anything like that, all i said is i would prefer to use brand i find superior due to fact that i can check its production batches and verify exactly whats going in....what is there to explain?? Do i need a chemist to tell me one has standards i can check and one does not? How would a degree, or education, or any expert change this fact? Ill say it again, until IO releases its standards for testing and or lets you access its ICP results....ill pick one that you CAN do that. its literally that simple. but yall out here taking offense to the fact i dont want to use one brand. hahaha. so dumb.

 

[Troylee]

explain what exactly? I think your not catching on here, typical of people with lower cognitive functioning.....i never said it was junk, or bad, or anything like that, all i said is i would prefer to use brand i find superior due to fact that i can check its production batches and verify exactly whats going in....what is there to explain?? Do i need a chemist to tell me one has standards i can check and one does not? How would a degree, or education, or any expert change this fact? Ill say it again, until IO releases its standards for testing and or lets you access its ICP results....ill pick one that you CAN do that. its literally that simple. but yall out here taking offense to the fact i dont want to use one brand. hahaha. so dumb.

Ha! Yep lower cognitive functioning! Good one… you’re the one here asking for help and having problems.. not the lower cognitive guy that’s used io for over 20 years.. my tank speaks for its self.