upside down mandarine

[Shibaken3]

Have this mandarine that's upside down out of the blue. It was doing OK yesterday and now this. His belly looks decent so not starvation. Got it from dr.reef and only been a month. Could it be some kind of disease or attacked by tomini tang? that's the only culprit I can think of. he's still alive and breathing but lifeless.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Have this mandarine that's upside down out of the blue. It was doing OK yesterday and now this. His belly looks decent so not starvation. Got it from dr.reef and only been a month. Could it be some kind of disease or attacked by tomini tang? that's the only culprit I can think of. he's still alive and breathing but lifeless.

I dont see signs of aggression in the pic but fish appears moribund and can be disease or other illness but need more history as to breathing rate ( normal or labored), eyes sunken in, etc

 

[MnFish1]

As @vetteguy53081 said - the fish looks moribund - and no matter what the cause - it may not survive.

 

[Shibaken3]

I dont see signs of aggression in the pic but fish appears moribund and can be disease or other illness but need more history as to breathing rate ( normal or labored), eyes sunken in, etc

short video hope it helps

 

[Shibaken3]

As @vetteguy53081 said - the fish looks moribund - and no matter what the cause - it may not survive.

Usually, fish that goes upside down are gonner, I just wanted to know why. he was doing fine yesterday.

 

[vetteguy53081]

short video hope it helps

As suspected, eyes are sunken in and labored breathing. Recovery will be difficult and there is no additives I can recommend to boost chances. You can increase Oxygen via air stone but may not make a difference.
Has water temp increased or salinity increased? What is ammonia level?

 

[Makara23]

Is that a wild caught mandarin or tank raised? I also bought 2 from Dr.Reef recently too and they were both moribund. I tried feeding them new bottles of copepods and hatched baby brine shrimp, nothing worked. They came in really unhealthy, one died in a few days, and the other in about a week.

I see cyano slime on your sand. Wild guess, but perhaps cyano toxin contributed?

 

[Makara23]

As suspected, eyes are sunken in and labored breathing. Recovery will be difficult and there is no additives I can recommend to boost chances.

What does sunken eyes mean? Disease or starvation?

 

[Shibaken3]

salinity 1.024
temp set a 77 but in summer so day time goes like 78 and then at night 77
I'm fighting dino right now
recently changed my rodi filter
ammonia never checked assuming 0
skimmer on 24/7

 

[Shibaken3]

Is that a wild caught mandarin or tank raised? I also bought 2 from Dr.Reef recently too and they were both moribund. I tried feeding them new bottles of copepods and hatched baby brine shrimp, nothing worked. They came in really unhealthy, one died in a few days, and the other in about a week.

man that one looks really bad sorry for the loss. I ordered tank raise but it came as 2.5 inches and not the advertised size of 1/2-3/4. I'm suspecting I was given a wild one when I ordered a tank raised.

 

[vetteguy53081]

What does sunken eyes mean? Disease or starvation?

illness or starvation. You mentioned dino- Dino can release low level toxins which may have effect on this fish
How was fish acclimated and for how long ?

 

[Makara23]

man that one looks really bad sorry for the loss. I ordered tank raise but it came as 2.5 inches and not the advertised size of 1/2-3/4. I'm suspecting I was given a wild one when I ordered a tank raised.

They don't raise them in tanks long enough to get 2.5" so I think you were sent wild caught ones too, which possibly explains why it didn't adapt to your tank too well.

The two tank raised ones I got were only 1/2", really tiny as if they just hatched yesterday.

 

[Shibaken3]

illness or starvation. You mentioned dino- Dino can release low level toxins which may have effect on this fish
How was fish acclimated and for how long ?

float the bag for 15 minutes for temp and then 30 minutes of drip acclimation. I'm aware that cyano and dino release toxins, I put in a bag of carbon hoping it helps. I also replaced the rodi filter assuming this is the root cause of dino, expired filters. After the filter change, I'm having less dino than before.

 

[Shibaken3]

They don't raise them in tanks long enough to get 2.5" so I think you were sent wild caught ones too, which possibly explains why it didn't adapt to your tank too well.

The two tank raised ones I got were only 1/2", really tiny as if they just hatched yesterday.

jeez, now I want to complain but feel like it's too late. were u issued a refund after the loss? did u get a new one?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

float the bag for 15 minutes for temp and then 30 minutes of drip acclimation. I'm aware that cyano and dino release toxins, I put in a bag of carbon hoping it helps. I also replaced the rodi filter assuming this is the root cause of dino, expired filters. After the filter change, I'm having less dino than before.

Sorry to see. I agree this is too large to be a captive raised mandarin.
It is a bit thin, but not so bad as to cause it to be moribund like that. It isn’t breathing fast so you can rule out oxygen issues or gill disease.
Fairly often, you just can’t determine why a fish drops like this.
Jay

 

[Shibaken3]

Sorry to see. I agree this is too large to be a captive raised mandarin.
It is a bit thin, but not so bad as to cause it to be moribund like that. It isn’t breathing fast so you can rule out oxygen issues or gill disease.
Fairly often, you just can’t determine why a fish drops like this.
Jay

thx u Jay as always

 

[vetteguy53081]

float the bag for 15 minutes for temp and then 30 minutes of drip acclimation. I'm aware that cyano and dino release toxins, I put in a bag of carbon hoping it helps. I also replaced the rodi filter assuming this is the root cause of dino, expired filters. After the filter change, I'm having less dino than before.

30 mins drip may not be enough. You want to equalize and verify salinity match with the tank its going into. What happens and may have been part is fish in shipped bags produce carbon dioxide and ammonia. The carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the water in the bag, That in turn makes the ammonia non-toxic to the fish. When you acclimate them, if not done just right, you drive off the carbon dioxide faster than you are diluting the ammonia. That raises the pH of the water in the bag, and that in turn, makes the residual ammonia very toxic to the fish.
As for dinos, the root cause is biological deficiencies which are causing the structure and in turn the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

30 mins drip may not be enough. You want to equalize and verify salinity match with the tank its going into. What happens and may have been part is fish in shipped bags produce carbon dioxide and ammonia. The carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the water in the bag, That in turn makes the ammonia non-toxic to the fish. When you acclimate them, if not done just right, you drive off the carbon dioxide faster than you are diluting the ammonia. That raises the pH of the water in the bag, and that in turn, makes the residual ammonia very toxic to the fish.
As for dinos, the root cause is biological deficiencies which are causing the structure and in turn the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.

I don’t think acclimation would be any issue after the fish has been in the tank for a month (or did I read that wrong?)

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I don’t think acclimation would be any issue after the fish has been in the tank for a month (or did I read that wrong?)

Jay

I read wrong - I thought new arrival

 

[Shibaken3]

I don’t think acclimation would be any issue after the fish has been in the tank for a month (or did I read that wrong?)

Jay

I received the fish on 5/18

30 mins drip may not be enough. You want to equalize and verify salinity match with the tank its going into. What happens and may have been part is fish in shipped bags produce carbon dioxide and ammonia. The carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the water in the bag, That in turn makes the ammonia non-toxic to the fish. When you acclimate them, if not done just right, you drive off the carbon dioxide faster than you are diluting the ammonia. That raises the pH of the water in the bag, and that in turn, makes the residual ammonia very toxic to the fish.
As for dinos, the root cause is biological deficiencies which are causing the structure and in turn the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.

I checked the salinity and it matched with my tank so I thought I was fine.