Velvet.... 6 tangs to Qt what would you do?

[topdogreefer]

I had a velvet outbreak in my tank. My gem and yellow tang were covered in dust and my blue hippo was swimming into the powerhead thismorning.

I've caught all the fish except 2 court jester goby tricky buggers.

So I've got 2 skunk clowns
2 percula clowns
Gem tang
2 yellow tangs
Blue hippo tang
Purple tang
White tail bristletooth tang
All together in a 40gal QT being treated with cupramene

Yellow and gem got a H202 bath before going to QT

I've never been in this situation before I think I can keep Ammonia down with water changes but I expect aggression to be an issue before long. 6 weeks sounds like an eternity.I have a 55gal in storage but I really don't have equipment to set it up as another QT. Space is a concern also

I'm very overwhelmed right now (STILL need to catch the court jester gobys!)

Any advise would be appreciated what would you do?

 

[Troylee]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 I’d think you need a bigger tank or multiple ones at least.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I had a velvet outbreak in my tank. My gem and yellow tang were covered in dust and my blue hippo was swimming into the powerhead thismorning.

I've caught all the fish except 2 court jester goby tricky buggers.

So I've got 2 skunk clowns
2 percula clowns
Gem tang
2 yellow tangs
Blue hippo tang
Purple tang
White tail bristletooth tang
All together in a 40gal QT being treated with cupramene

Yellow and gem got a H202 bath before going to QT

I've never been in this situation before I think I can keep Ammonia down with water changes but I expect aggression to be an issue before long. 6 weeks sounds like an eternity.I have a 55gal in storage but I really don't have equipment to set it up as another QT. Space is a concern also

I'm very overwhelmed right now (STILL need to catch the court jester gobys!)

Any advise would be appreciated what would you do?

That's a tough one. First, I'll assume your diagnosis is correct (velvet is fairly rare, and I've seen a lot of misidentification). Rapid breathing and not eating is the pair of primary symptoms seen with this issue.

Peroxide dips at 30 minutes at 100 ppm, with moving the fish to a clean tank has been shown in a fisheries paper to reduce Amyloodinium (velvet) tomonts to near zero. Most likely, a follow up treatment would be required to totally eliminate the protozoan. Here is a link to the original paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Clyde-Tamaru/publication/230234979_The_Application_of_Hydrogen_Peroxide_as_a_Treatment_for_the_Ectoparasite_Amyloodinium_ocellatum_Brown_1931_on_the_Pacific_Threadfin_Polydactylus_sexfilis/links/5cfdf41592851c874c5b58d8/The-Application-of-Hydrogen-Peroxide-as-a-Treatment-for-the-Ectoparasite-Amyloodinium-ocellatum-Brown-1931-on-the-Pacific-Threadfin-Polydactylus-sexfilis.pdf

I suggest coppersafe at 2.5 ppm to follow the peroxide dips (or just copper alone if the fish are still eating and not breathing too fast).

Aggression and ammonia will be challenges. In some cases, crowding fish actually reduces aggression, but of course, crowding creates more issues from ammonia in a new tank. Adding bottled bacteria or seeded media from your DT will go a long way in helping with ammonia. Water changes will reduce ammonia of course, but if there isn't some bacterial reduction, I've seen ammonia build back up to 1 ppm in 24 hours in crowded tanks.

Jay

 

[miyags]

At this point, watch your ammonia..A little will kill your sick fish fast..Have plenty of salt and water on hand. I always ramped up copper to the correct level over a few days..Do you have any type of seeded sponge filters?? get seachems ammonia badge, they help me.

 

[Cell]

Can you spare $50 to buy a HOB filter and a heater?

Aquaclear 50's are 52% off right now on Amazon with overnight delivery if you have Prime. $26 for the filter and another $25ish for a heater and you could get the 55 going.

 

[topdogreefer]

I do have a seeded sponge and also put some live rock i was willing to part with inside.

 

[topdogreefer]

It's not just the cost of a HOB filter and heater, it's space, salt, test reagents additional time testing and maintaining two quarentine tanks.

I will probably set up the 55 also but it's really not $50 holding me back.

As for coppersafe vs. Cupramene
I've already done the first dose of cupremene. It is what I could get my hands on today. Do you recommend I don't do the 2nd dose of cupramene and order the coppersafe? How would I go about switching products?

 

[Cell]

Not sure you will save money on salt given how frequently you will need water changes with 6 tangs plus others in a 40.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I do have a seeded sponge and also put some live rock i was willing to part with inside.

The live rock is most likely calcium based and will absorb some copper. Try to avoid that if you can, or then understand that you most likely will not be able to reuse that rock in a display tank with invertebrates.

Jay

 

[zombie.reef]

TANK TERROR: Identifying And Treating Marine Velvet

The reef aquarium hobby is not for the faint of heart. Maintaining a complex ecosystem can be a daunting task with many variables in play that all have effect on one another. However, beyond the effort to maintain the ecosystem and address common...

www.reef2reef.com

Increase water temperature: Marine velvet thrives in cooler water temperatures, so gradually increasing the temperature in your quarantine tank to around 80-82 degrees Fahrenheit can help to speed up the lifecycle of the parasite and make it more susceptible to treatment.

Use a UV sterilizer: A UV sterilizer can be effective at killing free-swimming parasites, including marine velvet, in the water column. Be sure to choose a sterilizer that is appropriately sized for your tank, and follow the manufacturer's instructions for installation and use.

Also turn out your aquarium lights and, if you can, cover it with a towel or a blanket to make sure no light from the room or outside can get it. Velvet is photosynthetic meaning that, like plants, it needs light to survive. Without light, you have a better chance of killing this foe once and for all

 

[miyags]

Ive always used cuprimine and the recommended test kit..I'd stick with what you have, and add the recommended dose..And have enough for water changes..

 

[topdogreefer]

I hope my diagnosis was right... I spent alot of time trying to convince myself this was not velvet last night. I wasn't able to get a half decent picture in the display but I just took these photos.

Jay do you think I should order coppersafe and change products at this point in the game or stick woth what I am using?

 

[topdogreefer]

Thank you miyags

 

[vetteguy53081]

I hope my diagnosis was right... I spent alot of time trying to convince myself this was not velvet last night. I wasn't able to get a half decent picture in the display but I just took these photos.

Jay do you think I should order coppersafe and change products at this point in the game or stick woth what I am using?

This appears to be Velvet. Some signs you would have seen are
Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, read the box to be sure it targets Oodinium. My choice is coppersafe or copper power at 2.25-2.5 therapuetic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna Brand (no api brand). Since you are using cupramine, assure you do not exceed therapuetic level .5 copper

 

[Jay Hemdal]

TANK TERROR: Identifying And Treating Marine Velvet

The reef aquarium hobby is not for the faint of heart. Maintaining a complex ecosystem can be a daunting task with many variables in play that all have effect on one another. However, beyond the effort to maintain the ecosystem and address common...

www.reef2reef.com

Increase water temperature: Marine velvet thrives in cooler water temperatures, so gradually increasing the temperature in your quarantine tank to around 80-82 degrees Fahrenheit can help to speed up the lifecycle of the parasite and make it more susceptible to treatment.

Use a UV sterilizer: A UV sterilizer can be effective at killing free-swimming parasites, including marine velvet, in the water column. Be sure to choose a sterilizer that is appropriately sized for your tank, and follow the manufacturer's instructions for installation and use.

Also turn out your aquarium lights and, if you can, cover it with a towel or a blanket to make sure no light from the room or outside can get it. Velvet is photosynthetic meaning that, like plants, it needs light to survive. Without light, you have a better chance of killing this foe once and for all

That article is pretty old and has some incorrect information in it. Indeed, most of the pictures given showing fish with "velvet" are actually advanced cases of Cryptocaryon. I am in the process of editing and updating the sticky notes in the fish disease section here, but that ability does not extend to posted articles like these.

People need to ensure they don't mix up freshwater velvet (Oodinium) with marine velvet (Amyloodinium). They are two different organisms.

Amyloodinium stops reproducing at 63 F., but of course, most marine aquarium fish can't tolerate that. It can reproduce up to 86 F and its prime range is 73-81. Raising the water temperature lowers the dissolved oxygen levels, and during a gill disease like this, can be the wrong thing to do.

UV sterilizers do kill Amyloodinium dinospores, but there is strong suspicion that in some cases, the organism is so deeply imbedded in the gill mucus that they never become exposed to the UV, and the infection can continue....so UV can help, but often will not cure the issue.

Despite what you will read online, Amyloodinium is NOT photosynthetic like FW velvet is, so there is no benefit from lowering the light levels.

Jay

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Regarding the aggression, use tank dividers, it works swimmingly with no issues. I had 5 fish in a 20 gallon for 6 weeks. The ammonia can be combated with heavy water changes but of course make sure the temp and salinity match.

Cupramine is more effective than copper safe or copper power but more toxic. Make the copper levels meet .5ppm in 24 hours. Your fish don't look good and are heavily infested.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Regarding the aggression, use tank dividers, it works swimmingly with no issues. I had 5 fish in a 20 gallon for 6 weeks. The ammonia can be combated with heavy water changes but of course make sure the temp and salinity match.

Cupramine is more effective than copper safe or copper power but more toxic. Make the copper levels meet .5ppm in 24 hours. Your fish don't look good and are heavily infested.

Did you make those dividers yourself? I've used egg crate before, but I found that some fish would ram into it and damage their snouts.

I used to have a number of those compartmentalized "retail systems" - three rows of divided acrylic chambers about 10" x 12" - those were great for quarantining large numbers of incompatible fish.

Jay


Jay

 

[topdogreefer]

I lost the gem tang and white tail tang last night. My blue hippo has no spots but isn't looking good. On the bright side the yellow tang seems alert and ate some mysis.

I havent reached the full dose of .5ppm yet directions say to wait 48 hours. You recommend I wait just 24. Or maybe bump it up to .35 today and .5 tomorrow?

My plan now is to probably stick with just the 40 for now and do dividers.

Thank you everyone for your help and advise.

 

[topdogreefer]

I am already using seeded sponge, would anyone recommend using bottled bacteria to supplement?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am already using seeded sponge, would anyone recommend using bottled bacteria to supplement?

If you see an ammonia rise, then that means your system needs more bacteria, so adding bottled bacteria can help - but there is a lag time for it to work.

Cupramine is a bit harsher than Coppersafe, but many people feel it works faster, and that is paramount in a case like this where extensive fish loss has already taken place. You should be at a full dose of 0.50 ppm

Be sure not to add any ammonia removers/binders when dosing Cupramine.

Sorry - I missed your pictures from last night, this looks more like advanced ich than velvet to me. Peroxide dips won''t help much with that, but the copper treatment would be the same though.

Jay