Weird Coloration on Copperband and acting strange - help needed

[Humblefish]

For the school tank we only buy from one specific LFS because of their standard procedures, how they take care of the fish, etc. So the owner of this store puts ALL of his fish in a 4 week QT process. You can walk in the store, see the fish in QT and see the fish that have been through QT and transferred to other tanks. We called in before we bought the fish and told them we were looking for a copperband, this was before christmas, and they said if we come in right after the holiday they would have a copperband that had went through the QT process. So thats the deal, i did not personally QT this fish. I don't know if that makes you less puzzled but i left that part out to shorten up the post.

I would need to know more about their exact QT protocol. For example:

• What med(s) were used during the 4 week QT process? How long were they used for?
• If copper was used, was it tested daily to ensure therapeutic levels were being maintained?
• Was the CBB isolated for the entire 4 week QT process, or were other fish coming & going from the same QT he was in?
• Was aerosol transmission taken into consideration if housing the CBB near adjacent systems?

As you can see, QT-ing fish in mass can be pretty complex and exacting. There are so many variables to consider, and so many things can go wrong. There is literally no margin for error. You have to QT fish in batches, never adding more fish to the group during the entire QT process. You have to use effective/all-inclusive medications, in correct dosages for the proper durations (because no LFS owner has the time to "watch" fish in QT for signs of disease.) You must also respect aerosol transmission with regards to where both the QT & retail systems are housed. It takes a lot of devotion and unquestionably attention to detail skills.

 

[Paul B]

Bobby, Buddy. You know I don't like to get involved in disease threads but that copperband does not look to me like he had a communicable disease. And I have had more copperbands than Victoria Secret has Supermodels. He may have had some parasites but it doesn't sound like it from his description. It looks like a wound that got infected or as I believe internal bleeding. That very slight dark spot near the top back is suspicious. Without an autopsy, we are guessing. (and I am going to guess you will disagree with me)

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Have you ever filleted a fish? Lay it on a paper towel and using a scalpel, or razor blade, cut it from the vent toward the head, then up the gills over it's head. Then cut towards the tail. Lift up the skin over that wound and you will see blood in the white meat that should not be there. It is common on thin fish like lookdowns, tangs and butterflies. You can also check out it's organs but you need a little experience to know what you are looking for.
In this hobby we lose so many fish then guess as to why it died. When the police find a dead body they don't say, Oh well I don't see any spots so it did not die of ich and we will never know. Of course if they pull a crow bar out from between his eyes or pry him out from between the subway car wheels it will be easier to determine the cause of death.
But if we are not sure how the fish died, and we get another one with a similar condition wouldn't it be nice if we knew what we are dealing with rather than subject the fish to all sorts of treatments that won't help it.
Remember medications may cure the fish, but many of them will make the fish "uncomfortable" and maybe give it something It didn't have before.
If you see that a fish has internal bleeding, there is nothing you could do for that fish unless you know how to operate and I doubt that.
Don't forget, the fish is already dead so you are not going to hurt it, but you may learn something to help the next fish.
You should at least check out it's gills with a magnifying glass to see if you see any parasites. Don't just flush the thing without trying to learn something.

See this copperband. There is a slight dark spot in the white band near the bottom of the fish south of his black spot. It is barely visible, but I saw it. That fish died as I new it would. I autopsied it and found a large pool of blood under that mark. I have seen it many times. Most people would buy that fish without ever realizing it has a terminal condition.



This is a healthy copperband that I had from a baby. He is now about 5".

Assuming its an injury and not a pest or illness, would you say it from poor handling at some point? or could it be from an injury in the tank?

 

[Paul B]

You can't assume much from that picture and vague description without an autopsy. Quarantining would assure it didn't have some sort of communicable disease but not everything is something they can catch from another fish. It looks like some sort of injury but an injury on a healthy fish will heal in a couple of days, that is what their slime is for. Fish slime is a living part of the fish and will heal an injury very fast. Fish won't even form a scar. Much faster than we will heal.
It could be poor handling as I said, thin fish are very susceptible to that and from the autopsies I have performed it seems that a rib punctures an area rich in blood. Fish ribs, especially a copperband are just like a sharp needle and many of them they are not connected to anything unlike our bones. It is very noticeable in an autopsy. But we are guessing without one.
That mark is definitely not from a disease and not from a pest. It looks to me that it came internally. I am more concerned with the very light mark just to the right and behind his black spot. That should not be there and it is internal.
We in this hobby concentrate mostly on outward signs of disease but many diseases show no visible signs and not everything can be cured just as not everything on us can be cured with drugs. Sometimes surgery is needed and on a fish, that could be tough because their insurance doesn't usually cover it.
This is also the reason I don't like to go on disease threads, there is too much conjecture and not enough autopsying to find out the real cause.

 

[Humblefish]

Bobby, Buddy. You know I don't like to get involved in disease threads but that copperband does not look to me like he had a communicable disease. And I have had more copperbands than Victoria Secret has Supermodels. He may have had some parasites but it doesn't sound like it from his description. It looks like a wound that got infected or as I believe internal bleeding. That very slight dark spot near the top back is suspicious. Without an autopsy, we are guessing. (and I am going to guess you will disagree with me)

I agree without an autopsy or at least a skin scrape, it is impossible to determine with absolute certainty whether this fish succumbed to internal bleeding, infection, had a disease or was just badly injured.

The purpose of my post was to alert the OP to get more detailed information about the LFS QT protocol, if this is who the school is going to use to QT all new fish.

 

[Paul B]

If we knew that they play RAP music at that school we would now the cause of death.

 

[Pola0502ds]

LOL! It's a school that is only Kindergarten through 2nd grade. I don't think anyone listens to rap yet.

 

[Paul B]

Well thank God for that! The fish should remain healthy

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

LOL! It's a school that is only Kindergarten through 2nd grade. I don't think anyone listens to rap yet.

Well thank God for that! The fish should remain healthy

So we can safely rule out a twerk injury.

 

[Brew12]

So we can safely rule out a twerk injury.

Might be premature to rule that out. The kids may be listing to pop music like Miley Cyrus!

 

[Pola0502ds]

Oh man, please don't mention her name again!