What am I not understanding about the Apex controller (or similar $730ish controllers)

[ScubaSkeets]

I've looked at the descriptions of the Apex and other controllers and I'm just not understanding the allure that these have at the price that they are.

Looking at the

Apex Controller System – Value Release​

What does this $730 system actually do that my $50 dollar Kasa smart power strip and my $100 PH/Temp/ORP controller does not, besides leak detection (I could buy a leak detector for $30) and water level sensor?

The Kasa smart power strip is controller by an app that allows for on/off, timer, schedule and monitors power usage and the PH/Temp/ORP controller is monitored/controlled by a different app. My heater has a digital adjustable temperature controller so I do not need it connected to the controller.
What am I missing by not using the Apex or similar $730 controller?

 

[braaap]

You are missing full control on one device. You are missing backup temperature protection. My apex turns off my heater. And if that fails my heater turns itself off. So I have redundancy.

You are also missing an app that does all the above mentioned and also reports power usage so you can see if you have failing equipment. Or an app that has a place for you to add testing results so you can see trends easily.

The controller isn’t for everyone. And you don’t need to buy a new one. I’m into my Apex with salinity, ph, orp, temp, leak detectors, auto feeder, vortech control and a trident for less than $730. Buy used. Tons of it out there.

 

[Dom]

I've looked at the descriptions of the Apex and other controllers and I'm just not understanding the allure that these have at the price that they are.

Looking at the

Apex Controller System – Value Release​

What does this $730 system actually do that my $50 dollar Kasa smart power strip and my $100 PH/Temp/ORP controller does not, besides leak detection (I could buy a leak detector for $30) and water level sensor?

The Kasa smart power strip is controller by an app that allows for on/off, timer, schedule and monitors power usage and the PH/Temp/ORP controller is monitored/controlled by a different app. My heater has a digital adjustable temperature controller so I do not need it connected to the controller.
What am I missing by not using the Apex or similar $730 controller?

Yes, I am in agreement with this. And while I understand there are many advanced features, I still question if they are worth the money.

People often complain about the costs associated with this hobby. But we, the hobbyist drive the demand, which in turn drives the price.

And while automation has its place in the hobby, I feel it creates a disconnect between the hobbyist and the tank, as hobbyists tend to "set it and forget it" when using devices like this.

 

[Reef-Engineer]

its all about linking all the parts together and programming abilities to improve safety for your critters.

That being said, the average joe is kind of rubbish at programming, so I would argue that most folks would be fine with your solution as described. Certainly if people are just using an apex to read some probes and act as light timers, you could spend a lot less.

Personally I would like to see an "advanced" controller allowing more programming freedom. But I guess that would be the reef Pi or something like that where the sky is the limit.

 

[TARHEEL78]

Lol, good luck with that Kasa stuff. Everything I've ever had hy them failed constantly.

 

[fodsod]

Advanced controllers certainly aren't for everyone. I've debated using one several times but each time I'm close I see people posting about APEX failures and everything they have automated goes off line. So it seems one almost needs an APEX for the APEX for complete coverage in case of failure. lol.

Kidding aside, reefing is a hobby for most of us. Hobbies can be as expensive or as complex as you want to make them. If you ask for examples of reefing on the cheap verses no expense spared you'll get 100 people on each side of the fence debating the validity of their choice.

 

[exnisstech]

I think a lot depends on the person. Some folks love tech. Some people like myself do not. Many people travel and need a controller. I run four tanks and have no controller. Inkbirds for temp and I have ato units. I've kicked around controllers but decide against it every time. I do not need to monitor salinity in tank. I don't care about pH as mine is always over 8. I don't need alerts because I don't travel and when I did I have no one who could go to the house if I had a problem so an alert would just ruin my trip. If I were more into tech I would probably have one to play with but I have zero need for a controller.

EDIT: I do have stand alone dosers on 2 tanks and drip kalk on another. Kalk is dosed via a brs doser and a $15 digital timer. Everything together is less than the cost of a single controller. But cost isn't really the issue since this hobby is a giant money pit no matter how it's done IMO

 

[ScubaSkeets]

And while automation has its place in the hobby, I feel it creates a disconnect between the hobbyist and the tank, as hobbyists tend to "set it and forget it" when using devices like this.

But what automation? I use my Kasa power strip as a simple way to turn off/on what needs to for feeding, water changes, etc. It's convenient but I don't see it is "automation" The only "automation" that I have on my setup is the ORP controller turns on/off at the set ORP level. However, it's not even run like that as it is set on a schedule via the Kasa app.

 

[Dragen Fiend]

Two things I found in this hobby where prices are overpriced. Lights and controllers.

When it comes to controllers. You are paying more for the software than the hardware. If you can program. I highly suggest ESP32 route. I've been tempted myself to create a controller. I run tons of automation throughout my house with HA. I don't see why I'd stop with DIYing my tanks next.

 

[MarineandReef Jaron]

For me the 2 most important features of a controller are 1. Notifications 2. Redundancy. "Control" doesn't really play into my decision.

I want the Apex/Hydros etc to notify me when the temperature is too high and turn off my heater and other heat-producing equipment even if I am asleep or out of cell service.

I want the controller to tell me there is water on the floor and turn off all of the equipment in my sump that is likely leaking.

I want the controller to tell me that my pH has spiked and turn off my doser.

I want the controller to notify me when my salinity is off and turn off my ATO if it is too low.

I want the controller to notify me when my skimmer cup is full and turn off the skimmer to prevent overflowing.

I want the controller to notify me when equipment power is too low or too high, when system power is out, or when my alkalinity is off so I can investigate.

I don't really care that much about turning things on and off from my phone and I don't just want audible alerts or alerts that don't respond with emergency actions. I specifically want something that notified me remotely that there is a problem and takes corrective action to help the situation.

 

[vdKroon]

But what automation? I use my Kasa power strip as a simple way to turn off/on what needs to for feeding, water changes, etc. It's convenient but I don't see it is "automation" The only "automation" that I have on my setup is the ORP controller turns on/off at the set ORP level. However, it's not even run like that as it is set on a schedule via the Kasa app.

Here's an example that I actually use:

Button: Broadcast Feed

One click and it reduces the return pump power, turns off the skimmer, disconnects the UV, lowers Vortechs power to 10%, turns off the heater unless the tank temperature probe is lower than the sump probe temperature, monitors water height in the return compartment, and, if it's more than "x", increases the return pump power by 10% to prevent water level issues. Maintain this for 1 hour, then revert to the original values following a specific order and timing.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

But what automation? I use my Kasa power strip as a simple way to turn off/on what needs to for feeding, water changes, etc. It's convenient but I don't see it is "automation" The only "automation" that I have on my setup is the ORP controller turns on/off at the set ORP level. However, it's not even run like that as it is set on a schedule via the Kasa app.

So I don't have much experience with the Kasa devices and how many inputs they have, from my understanding they are pretty much just controllable as far as preset on/off devices on a schedule with some devices capable of of having their own input monitoring ability?

With Apex/GHL/Hydros every output is capable of monitoring and being programmed based off of every input/output.

For example, you can program a heater AND your chiller AND your lights AND xyz... to watch your temp probe and react accordingly.

Also, you can set a lot of conditional statements based on just the state of other outlets not just an input, ie. outputs watching other outputs.

Example, for this you could have something where if your return pump turns off your skimmer also turns off so your skimmer pump doesn't also over flow.

In my opinoin, a lot of the cost here is really coming down to the network of devices you're connecting into, like are you wanting to get a Trident, DOS, AFS or are you wanting to get into the Hydros line or the GHL line.

 

[ca1ore]

As folks have noted, an expensive controller is a nice to have, certainly not a must have. If you don’t think you need one, or you cannot see how you’d use one ….. then you don’t need one.

I use mine for all sorts of things. Many of the things already noted. My sump and most equipment is in the basement, so problems aren’t immediately obvious and the apex lets me know immediately. I travel a lot for my job, and remote monitoring/access provides peace of mind, certainly.

 

[Doctorgori]

it’s about fault and cost tolerance, I’d hate to loose a healthy eating pet Rock Beauty bea cause my cheap Amazon “smart strip” failed.
I’d rather hand dose and self monitor myself for that matter (and have)
My take, get a real controller or go ole skool…either works better than going cheap

 

[Pntbll687]

I've looked at the descriptions of the Apex and other controllers and I'm just not understanding the allure that these have at the price that they are.

Looking at the

Apex Controller System – Value Release​

What does this $730 system actually do that my $50 dollar Kasa smart power strip and my $100 PH/Temp/ORP controller does not, besides leak detection (I could buy a leak detector for $30) and water level sensor?

The Kasa smart power strip is controller by an app that allows for on/off, timer, schedule and monitors power usage and the PH/Temp/ORP controller is monitored/controlled by a different app. My heater has a digital adjustable temperature controller so I do not need it connected to the controller.
What am I missing by not using the Apex or similar $730 controller?

Depends on what you want to do, and what kind of control you want.

I ran my 180g tank on wyze smart plugs, because everything was simple. Led strip lights that turn on/off and t5's that did the same. Dosing was kalkwasser on a kamoer pump which has it's own app.

I had the same on my frag tanks, but it got to be allot because the two frag tanks were linked together. I got an apex jr to monitor the ph and temp on the frag tanks. I have added two eb832 which control lights/pumps/skimmers. It made the frag tanks WAY easier to sync everything when I wanted to do servicing of equipment or cleaning the tanks, one "outlet" on apex is turned on and everything I wanted to turn off then turned off.

I've since added an apex to the display, but again everything is still simple on/off and monitor ph.

It has made my life easier, which means I do the cleaning and maintenance and water changes on a regular basis.

By no means is a controller required or even remotely necessary. If you're happy with your setup then keep going that way. What matters is what the tank looks like, not the equipment that is running it.

 

[Pntbll687]

I've looked at the descriptions of the Apex and other controllers and I'm just not understanding the allure that these have at the price that they are.

Looking at the

Apex Controller System – Value Release​

What does this $730 system actually do that my $50 dollar Kasa smart power strip and my $100 PH/Temp/ORP controller does not, besides leak detection (I could buy a leak detector for $30) and water level sensor?

The Kasa smart power strip is controller by an app that allows for on/off, timer, schedule and monitors power usage and the PH/Temp/ORP controller is monitored/controlled by a different app. My heater has a digital adjustable temperature controller so I do not need it connected to the controller.
What am I missing by not using the Apex or similar $730 controller?

And that if you want to keep things "simple" but still get into the controller market, The hydros X3/XP8 thats at the bottom of that link you posted, for $540, would be the way to go

 

[Doctorgori]

Here is the thing: you can’t loose $1000 in fish if your cheap Amazon light fails but you can if your “Amazon smart plug “ doesn’t shut off your heater … it simply doesn’t have the programming, what if wi-fi goes out, et et…
Ive had failures with those brands: Kasa, ONO, Treatlife, whatever

 

[areefer01]

But what automation? I use my Kasa power strip as a simple way to turn off/on what needs to for feeding, water changes, etc. It's convenient but I don't see it is "automation" The only "automation" that I have on my setup is the ORP controller turns on/off at the set ORP level. However, it's not even run like that as it is set on a schedule via the Kasa app.

Sounds like a controller isn't needed by you which is great. They are more of a luxury than a necessity. Some questions one would ask:

Continuous water change?
Set up various dosing each using its own allocated time slot
Push notification when a water level is low or high
Monitor or network check, reach back
Test automation and action based on results
Seasonal and/or geographic time adjustments

List goes on and on as to what people are using controllers for. Basic Boolean logic to coral spawning. Timing of pumps, feed modes, etc.

Only the hobbyist knows what they may or may not need.

 

[zerokewl]

Your ph controller isint smart enough to adjust set doses down if it sees that the maximum allowed dose isint required. Controllers can do dynamic dosing

 

[Jimbo327]

I've run my previous tank on timers and power strips, and while it is functional. It lacks many benefits of a controller. After using a controller, I would never run another tank without a controller. The convenience, notification, remote monitoring, and redundancy is worth every penny...especially if you can pick up most of these used controllers at a fraction of retail.

And if you ever take a 2-3 weeks vacation or work travel, you would need a controller. Speaking about disconnect, I feel like a lot of people burn out of the hobby because they literally can't take a break or go on vacation. Also, this is an expensive hobby, many reefers have thousands of dollars invested in their $$$ corals and fish, so a controller is a cheap insurance. When a stuck heater or heater control can wipe out your tank overnight...you would want an independent controller probe to either notify you or turn off power to the heater control. If your ORP is too low/high, you might want to check your ozone. If your alk is too high, you want to check on your doser or reactor. You can chart your parameters. The list goes on and on.