What are you dosing on top of All For Reef?

[Hans-Werner]

@Hans-Werner I did try AFR and Plus-NP in the same container at a 19:1 ratio but I noticed it's a bit cloudy and after 1-3h there is a white substance on the bottom of the container. It will mix again if I shake the container a bit but I guess this will not allow me to auto dose both of them using one doser.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I think this could be a phosphate precipitate, most likely calcium phosphate or struvit (ammonium magnesium phosphate).

If possible, stirring might be advantageous. The precipitate may most likely limits the use as a nutrient supply but it will not lower the calcium and alkalinity supply much, so you still can use it like AFR.

Regarding nutrients you can give it a try. If nutrient concentrations in your tank don't show the expected development or concentrations you may have to dose some Plus-NP manually.

 

[Bramzor]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I think this could be a phosphate precipitate, most likely calcium phosphate or struvit (ammonium magnesium phosphate).

If possible, stirring might be advantageous. The precipitate may most likely limits the use as a nutrient supply but it will not lower the calcium and alkalinity supply much, so you still can use it like AFR.

Regarding nutrients you can give it a try. If nutrient concentrations in your tank don't show the expected development or concentrations you may have to dose some Plus-NP manually.

Thanks for the feedback. Do you remember if you had similar effect when you did the test with AFR and Bactobalance?

 

[RoanokeReef]

Is there any issue with Plus-NP in an acrylic container?

 

[Hans-Werner]

Thanks for the feedback. Do you remember if you had similar effect when you did the test with AFR and Bactobalance?

No, I didn't see any precipitates in this experiments, most likely due to lower phosphate concentration of NP-Bacto-Balance. This also led me to the conclusion it might be phosphate.

 

[Lou Ekus]

Is there any issue with Plus-NP in an acrylic container?

Not at all, you can use the PLUS NP with acrylic tubing and containers.

 

[Bramzor]

No, I didn't see any precipitates in this experiments, most likely due to lower phosphate concentration of NP-Bacto-Balance. This also led me to the conclusion it might be phosphate.

So using Bacto Balance with AFR should be "safe" to use?

A bit strange because in my test it was a 19:1 ratio with PlusNP and your test was 4:1 with BactoBalance . Which sounds like there should be similar or more phosphate in your experiment.

 

[Hans-Werner]

So using Bacto Balance with AFR should be "safe" to use?

A bit strange because in my test it was a 19:1 ratio with PlusNP and your test was 4:1 with BactoBalance . Which sounds like there should be similar or more phosphate in your experiment.

It is correct that despite the lower phosphate concentration of NP-Bacto-Balance there is slightly more phosphate in the mix but with less calcium and different viscosity there are most likely fewer encounters of phosphate and calcium ions and less reaction of both.

 

[Bramzor]

It is correct that despite the lower phosphate concentration of NP-Bacto-Balance there is slightly more phosphate in the mix but with less calcium and different viscosity there are most likely fewer encounters of phosphate and calcium ions and less reaction of both.

Did the test today and indeed, no (visible) precipitates with NP-Bacto-Balance in AFR compared to a LOT with Plus-NP. Used the same 19:1 ratio which looks like a "normal" ratio.

I really love the idea (especially for a nano reef) of dosing All For Reef and NP-Bacto-Balance together. Having to (auto) dose only a single solution that covers everything that All For Reef covers and an extra N and P together with carbon dosing, thats sound like a real all in one solution. Considering that for a nano tank, dosing BB on its own is not possible using a dosing pump.

The only issue I have is that I do not have a lot of nutrients (fishless tank for now) so I need to dose Plus-NP to keep on track with nutrients. But I wonder if I could use Plus-NP 1 or 2 days a week to boost NP and use the AllForReef+BactoBalance solution the rest of the time. Do I need to worry about BactoBalance zeroing my nutrients in the tank or is it safe because of the N and P in it as long as I use PlusNP sometimes to up the nutrients?

 

[Biojay16]

On top of AFR I do use kalkwasser to maintain alkalinity and bump the PH up a bit. Been doing it for the last 3 months and I noticed a massive increase in coraline algae

Same situation with my Red Sea 250 stayed on all AFR just lowered daily dosage and started topping off with stirred kalk. Max ph was 7-8-8.0 now its steady 8.1-8.3. Keeping a close eye on Alk with trident but 1 month so far so good !

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Did the test today and indeed, no (visible) precipitates with NP-Bacto-Balance in AFR compared to a LOT with Plus-NP. Used the same 19:1 ratio which looks like a "normal" ratio.

I really love the idea (especially for a nano reef) of dosing All For Reef and NP-Bacto-Balance together. Having to (auto) dose only a single solution that covers everything that All For Reef covers and an extra N and P together with carbon dosing, thats sound like a real all in one solution. Considering that for a nano tank, dosing BB on its own is not possible using a dosing pump.

The only issue I have is that I do not have a lot of nutrients (fishless tank for now) so I need to dose Plus-NP to keep on track with nutrients. But I wonder if I could use Plus-NP 1 or 2 days a week to boost NP and use the AllForReef+BactoBalance solution the rest of the time. Do I need to worry about BactoBalance zeroing my nutrients in the tank or is it safe because of the N and P in it as long as I use PlusNP sometimes to up the nutrients?

I'm sorry I just came across this thread. So you are mixing 19 parts of AFR to one part Bacto-Balance? Because right now I am hand dosing B-B everyday in the morning. So if I can mix this together that would be great. Is it staying in solution?

 

[Bramzor]

I'm sorry I just came across this thread. So you are mixing 19 parts of AFR to one part Bacto-Balance? Because right now I am hand dosing B-B everyday in the morning. So if I can mix this together that would be great. Is it staying in solution?

Correct, I did a 19:1 ratio but Hans did a 3:1 ratio which also worked. I'm not sure what ratio you would use but I guess it will be somewhere in between these numbers right? Haven't tested it over a long time but the solution stays clear (which it does not with Plus NP) so it should work.

How stable is your AFR and BB dosage? Meaning how frequently do you modify these dosages?

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Correct, I did a 19:1 ratio but Hans did a 3:1 ratio which also worked. I'm not sure what ratio you would use but I guess it will be somewhere in between these numbers right? Haven't tested it over a long time but the solution stays clear (which it does not with Plus NP) so it should work.

How stable is your AFR and BB dosage? Meaning how frequently do you modify these dosages?

Well, what I do is wrong, so don't do what I do. I am going to change it but I have to wait to get my new frag tank going. Right now all my frags are in my DT (40g) so my uptake on everything is intense.
I started out with AFR, and that was steady for a bit. Then my Cal consumption was on the rise, so I just started dosing ESV 2 part to make up the difference. Then I wanted to start dosing BB but my PO4 was too low, so I started with +NP. With that and heavy feeding I was able to get my PO4 high enough to start BB.
So here is the problem with adding band-aids like I did. AFR has trace elements in the proper ratio for Cal and ALK. But I am adding extra of those separately. So I am sure I am low on my trace. I did an ICP test and most of my trace was zero according to them. Which I do not fully trust this company but it was a free test. I have been adding K trace to make up for things. Plus weekly water changes.
What I need to do once I get my frag tank done, is reset so my main source of Cal/Alk and Trace is from AFR and supplement that with minor tweeks from ESV. But that will be a tricky/lot of testing thing and everything now is doing well. I don't want to rock the boat twice.
I would imagine that any successful system will never stabilized until all the growth is maxed out. I can see a percentage of AFR increase in correlation to growth rate of your corals.

 

[Reef Puncher]

I does klakwasser on top of all for reef for the ph boost. But all for reef is all you really need unless you have a ton of sps. I have a moderate amount of sps.

so glad i found you saying that in this old post. i have been using kalkwasser up till last night. i just swapped to all for reef because i have been struggling with my trace elements. i asked someone else and they said you cant do both. but i was thinking about it alot today and was like why not?

so i mixed 900ml of all for reef with 300 ml of kalk and put that into an automatic doser. i dont see why i cant do that. worst case is the extra calcium and alk starts rising higher than the magnesium, so what, ill just dose extra mag then. i really dont want to lose that ph boost i got from kalk. i was constantly sitting at 8.4 and it was great. I know its gonna drop some, i expect that, but im hoping the small amount of kalk helps. if anything i might add more of a kalk ratio. right now its a ratio of 3 to 1. maybe ill go 2 to 1 ratio, or half and half. what do you do?

 

[Mechano]

so glad i found you saying that in this old post. i have been using kalkwasser up till last night. i just swapped to all for reef because i have been struggling with my trace elements. i asked someone else and they said you cant do both. but i was thinking about it alot today and was like why not?

so i mixed 900ml of all for reef with 300 ml of kalk and put that into an automatic doser. i dont see why i cant do that. worst case is the extra calcium and alk starts rising higher than the magnesium, so what, ill just dose extra mag then. i really dont want to lose that ph boost i got from kalk. i was constantly sitting at 8.4 and it was great. I know its gonna drop some, i expect that, but im hoping the small amount of kalk helps. if anything i might add more of a kalk ratio. right now its a ratio of 3 to 1. maybe ill go 2 to 1 ratio, or half and half. what do you do?

Not sure he meant that he mixed the kalk with the all-for-reef. As I recall that is a no-no.

If what you meant was keep you AFR in one dosing container and your kalk in a separate dosing container, that would be fine

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not sure he mean that he mixed the kalk with the all-for-reef. As I recall that is a no-no.

If what you meant was keep you AFR in one dosing container and your kalk in a separate dosing container, that would be fine

I agree.