What is this thing?!

[Elementalj]

Yes, my tank is brand new. It's going through its cycling phase right now. But the diatoms just seem to be getting worse.

In this hobby, everything takes time and patience. [emoji1611]

 

[Untamedrose]

I think they're quite beautiful in their own way....just don't try to pet em!

More typical:

This is not a common bristleworm, but a Bobbit Worm, which is an ambush predator. Not a detritavore like a common bristleworm:

More than you want to know:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rs/

Link summary: Most worms are great for your tank...and the ones that aren't great for the tank are on the obvious side.

First one looks more like a fireworm...whole other beast. That I wouldnt keep in my tank.

 

[mcarroll]

Check out that link I posted with the photos - he's a detritivore! Just one of the bigger varieties.

Fireworm is a generic name for them due to the wonderful sensation this gives you when you try to pet or hug them:

(From an unrelated thread: post #6 Not my photo.)

Bristleworm is another generic name, just not referring to the pain but instead the spines themselves.

I think the coral-eating polychetes you read about in the forums are extremely rare. How do you know these are those?

Here's my personal theory on an alternate explanation for the mega-bristle works and supposed instances of coral eating.

These guys almost universally have no way to bite pieces off of something. They have a rough tongue they use to lick soft decaying matter into their wormy little gullet that works like a bird's gizzard.

I suspect you're talking about this weirdo exception to the rule....which you never, ever, ever, ever see in home aquaria:
WATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK OF SEVERE HEEBIE JEEBIES

 

[Elementalj]

Ew! I love it!!

 

[mcarroll]

Those guys eat coral.

 

[mcarroll]

<shudder>

 

[Untamedrose]

Bristle worm isnt a fire worm ...they are different critters two different total group of critters laymans might confuse them but that doesnt change they are totally different species.

 

[mcarroll]

I'm no expert, I just read.....that link. And that video. <shudder>

 

[Untamedrose]

Im not an expert either, there are very very few polychaeta experts.

I wouldnt call myself a Bird expert either...
but calling a brown sparrow the same thing as a redtail...b/c they are just Birds and thats the "common" name is what just happened. Expecting the two to look the same act the same and behave the same in a tank b/c they are both Birds.
Isnt logial.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Yes, my tank is brand new. It's going through its cycling phase right now. But the diatoms just seem to be getting worse.

Ohhhhh, that's not bad yet.

My tank when it was nice and clean.

Then...

Then, as more time went on....

Ahhhhhhh..........

 

[Lionfish Lair]

First one looks more like a fireworm...whole other beast. That I wouldnt keep in my tank.

You are absolutely correct. It is a Hermodice carunculata.

 

[mcarroll]

You're sure it's not a Linopherus, Lysaretidae or Eurythoe species? It looks pretty similar to those judging from photos.

Can you really be that sure without a close exam?

From the link, those two I named are really common in reefs, where the predatory worms are apparently rare as can be.

Again from the link, all are "giant fireworms".



Repost: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rs/

In contrast to the other large beneficial fireworms found in our tanks, one species decidedly presents problems for a reef aquarium. This species, Hermodice carunculata, is a fireworm species commonly found in the Caribbean, although other species in the same genus are found throughout the tropics. It is the only potential "problem" fireworm in aquaria because it eats stony corals and gorgonians in its natural habitat, but may also prey on Indo-Pacific soft corals in the aquarium. As with all fireworms, this species has no jaws to bite off chunks of food, rather it must lick them to death. As the worm lacks the jaws to sever the pieces of its prey, feeding in Hermodice is a prolonged process. When they feed, Hermodice individuals typically swallow the ends of a gorgonian or soft coral and then proceed to lick the flesh off of it, while the ends are still attached to the colony. Such feeding is a lengthy process; it takes hours. During this period the worm really isn't going to go anywhere, it is tethered to its dinner. This species is also an obligate predator of these prey, although it may scavenge a bit, it will not, - in fact, it cannot, - eat other prey. If you have a Hermodice in your tank, you will either eventually find it on a prey organism munching away or see it crawling across the substrate. Remove it with a pair of forceps, tweezers, or tongs, and dispose of it.

Ron Shimek is an expert in the field so far as I know. Please let me know if this has changed. You might want to CC Ron and reefkeeping.com too though.

I also understand how naming of critters works.

"Fireworm" and "bristleworm" are called common names. Like "tree frog" or "ground squirrel."

...or "Blueberry" for that matter.

It's plain and obvious, by definition in most cases, how the terms came to be applied to the critter in question. "Fireworm" and "bristleworm" are neither unique to a species - they describe generic features of a group of animals. Common names are rarely (ever?) unique to a species. Especially when you have a group of critters as numerous as polychetes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_name

Only worth posting because so many people have knee-jerk reactions to the presence of any type of bristleworm. They fear the legendary (i.e. rarely seen) "predatory fireworm"...and take that fear out on every dime-a-dozen bristleworm they encounter from their cleanup crew.

Of the rare sightings of predatory worms there are, I wonder how many are still false ID's and the coral they were found on was dying and merely the dead flesh is being consumed? I'd guess a lot of them, but it'd be interesting to know for sure.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

I am 100% sure, as they have certain features that none of the other bristleworms have. It's IS what defines the Hermodice and it's the red plume. No other has it and the one in the picture does. This is not one you need to be an expert to ID, you just need to know what you are looking at.


But all the same, perhaps you should give your article another read. I've quoted the caption found under the picture below.

Figure 3. A predator to avoid; the worm illustrated here is Hermodice carunculata, the large predatory fireworm commonly found in the Caribbean. It is very rarely found in reef aquaria. A. A scanning electron micrograph of the front end of a Hermodice individual; (M= the mouth, P= the parapodia, and C= fringe-like tentacles found on the caruncle). Note that that fringe is evident as bright red patch in the other images; also compare with Figure 1, and see that the fringe is absent on Eurythoe. If all else fails, if the worm has a bright red spot on the top of the head, it is likely a Hermodice. B. A large Hermodice individual approaching a dead crab or crab molt. Even predators sometimes scavenge.C. An individual eating the tissue off a gorgonian branch; it has swallowed the end of a gorgonian branch and will rasp the tissue off it. Images in B and C are courtesy of James Wiseman. End quote.


You don't have to believe me, but you should, perhaps, believe the article you're referencing.

 

[mcarroll]

Well, if you're sure, you're sure. And you? You're sure!

I know a lot of reefers claim to see "fireworms" (meaning coral-eating bristleworms) but that this genus that actually eats coral is apparently very rare according to an expert....so it seems someone isn't getting it right.

Ron seems to equivocate on the red spot a bit in his article and I'm more on that side of things. He uses an electron microscope photo to describe the feature and only claims that "red spot" identifier is "likely"....I have to assume he would have chosen different words than "likely" and "if all else fails" if he meant it was 100% sure.

What Ron says we can count on is that it'll be found hanging off a coral - feeding - sooner or later as it rarely scavenges. The behavior is very conspicuous. A worm doesn't grow to finger-size without eating!!

To bring back the topic.....I think the main idea for @DisneyMatt10 ("Sadly...I ended up with bristleworms") is – if you don't have a bristleworm hanging off a coral, don't worry about bristleworms.

Folks tend to worry too much about them - even before they see them!

 

[Lionfish Lair]

It has nothing to do with me being sure about the ID of that worm in that article. Ron put that picture in his article. Ron said that picture was of a Hermodice carunculata. So, you're are saying believe Ron and yet you're saying don't believe Ron. His first sentence about that picture... "A predator to avoid; the worm illustrated here is Hermodice carunculata, the large predatory fireworm commonly found in the Caribbean." The "likely" was included with the species in general.... not the picture he included. So, yes, I'm 100% certain that's a Hermodice carunculata because it has the characteristics of one and RON himself said it was.

 

[mcarroll]

I was quoting your quote which was the caption to the photo, which I quoted earlier....perhaps PM would be a better place for this part of the discussion?

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Thanks, but PM is not necessary....