What makes the Neptune APEX controller worth $799.00

[road_runner]

Btw just to be clear am not here to take on neptune. What I am trying to say is:
Neptune is not the only way and there are more options for such high price points. If neptune is working for you great job. I am using neptune as well.
Cheers.

 

[road_runner]

Many people fail to understand that your Apex configuration/communication is cloud hosted, which can be expensive for manufacturers, and Neptune provides this free of charge. Seneye on the other hand is cheaper, does less, and charges monthly for the cloud portion. That all said, having access to my tank via the web, mobile device etc, is very important, and it works amazing. If Neptune wanted, they could reduce the price per unit and charge for the hosting, but they don't - simple pricing is better imo. Flat rate buys you piece of mind.

Come on man. Cloud based is the poster child of cost reduction....Software and cloud is much cheaper tha hardware. I would argue that's why apex keep changing their hardware and ask people to pay. Its because they are not spending on future proofing their hardware design. Lol.
Why you think they chosen to have the trident dependent on a full apex upgrade while there are other kh monitors that are stand alone and can be paired with any controller including old apex like what I do?
They want you to buy hardware.
Why you think they have fmm and atk which are the same modules...because they want you to buy more hardware.
Many other examples

 

[Burrito]

i have the apex EL and i must admit it is a VERY nice powerstrip, i admittedly dont use it to its full potential though.

main use for me

monitor power
turn things on and off with my phone/ timer
program my ecotech gear (doable with reeflink)
monitor temp and ph (best thing)
use the DOS for AWC- i would buy the apex for this along lol

 

[CMO]

I'm thinking a visual will help here. Because it can monitor all this reliably and easily!! Makes reef keeping practical. I can travel and still know exactly what's going on with my tank and make adjustments as needed.

Not to downplay some legitimate problems people have had. But as you can see I have a ridiculous amount of Neptune gear with not a single failure or problem whatsoever in over a year with this setup. My opinion is that some, but not all of the issues re Neptune are user related.

Just as an example, is it really the flow meters fault for the errant readings if you let a bunch of chaeto get sucked up in your pump? Many issues related to flow meters I read are due to this which is easily solvable with a pump pre-filter. And if you don't want any fine filtration like my situation with Triton, run a large mesh filter that only traps chaeto strands but nothing else.

 

[fogcutter]

Not to downplay some legitimate problems people have had. But as you can see I have a ridiculous amount of Neptune gear with not a single failure or problem whatsoever in over a year with this setup. My opinion is that some, but not all of the issues re Neptune are user related.

Just as an example, is it really the flow meters fault for the errant readings if you let a bunch of chaeto get sucked up in your pump? Many issues related to flow meters I read are do to this which is easily solvable with a pump pre-filter. And if you don't want any fine filtration like my situation with Triton, run a large mesh filter that only traps chaeto strands but nothing else.

So if if everything was Apex ready and you had to buy a dosing pump would you choose the DOS over something else? Also are you planning on running a Trident in conjunction with the Triton system?

 

[CMO]

So if if everything was Apex ready and you had to buy a dosing pump would you choose the DOS over something else? Also are you planning on running a Trident in conjunction with the Triton system?

Absolutely and yes I'm planning on running the Trident for test at a minimum. We'll see about giving it full control and if it can handle Triton with appropriate dose spacing etc.

 

[road_runner]

Absolutely given the ease of updating doses remotely via Fusion. However, there is one glaring issue with DOS not having the dosing schedules stored on the device as a failsafe. If network connection is lost it will fallback to off which can be detrimental to an sps tank in very short time. I am in the process of setting up a 2nd non Neptune doser as a backup to protect against this. For me the ease and accessibility of updating via Fusion is worth having the shortfall. Something to definitely consider.

Do not you think having the need to set another doser to protect you from the issues in the doser is red flag? Am just wondering why is it that you are ok with this?
Is it vendor loyalty?
Would you be ok buying a 2nd phone back up to you phone?
Am just wondering what is your line of thinking...

 

[CMO]

Do not you think having the need to set another doser to protect you from the issues in the doser is red flag? Am just wondering why is it that you are ok with this?
Is it vendor loyalty?
Would you be ok buying a 2nd phone back up to you phone?
Am just wondering what is your line of thinking...

Absolutely not. I have no brand loyalty. Just using what I believe offers the best full integrated suite of tank monitoring products currently. If another brand is comes along and offers something better I'd happily switch.

 

[road_runner]

Absolutely not and I hope enough people like myself demand they change it. However, as I said, the ease of updating remotely is unmatched by Fusion in my opinion and even more important than having the data stored locally if I had to choose one.

I have no brand loyalty. Just using what I believe offers the best full suite of tank monitoring products currently. If another brand is comes along and offers something better I'd happily switch.

I posted a thread regarding this to the Neptune forums and not a single person chimed in other than Neptune's response. Why would they change something no one seems cares about.

Hey maybe it's a big conspiracy with coral sellers to have people destroy their tank once a year or so and have to restock with new corals.

Do you what you can get for the cost of 2 does? Am talking solid American or German design dosers with more than 2 heads and 5 to 10 years warranty?
Do you know most of what you can get will have cloud component or simply can be connected to a simple apex?
Do you know how much a khg thay test and control kh cost?
Now donot you think that the warrante that neptune is giving is useless when you need to buy back ups for your equipments?
Am not picking on you, you already invested there and I wish you luck, I am merely pointing out that there are options so reefers who read this forum can comb through the noise.
One thing I have noticed on forms is that people will rave about equipment even though they face issues...I do not know why...its human psychology I guess..we want ppl to be in the same shoes we are in ha ha.

All respect to you btw, I used to be the same with the kessil wagon until one day I realized that this is not about equipment, it's about the coral and systems.

 

[Juniorh2r]

Well makes everything easier to be honest measures salinity ph temp and if you hook up for example uv reactor or algae reactor no matter where you are you could cut on and off it makes everything for me so much easier I think its worth it pricey but worth it

 

[PerplexyHexy]

@PerplexyHeyx that doesn't sound like normal operation. I would give Neptune Support a call or email to get to the bottom of it.

https://www.neptunesystems.com/support/contact-support/

Just got off the phone with them... said its perfectly normal... the guy said he doesnt even automatic calibrate because its too finicky... lol... he said he always manually calibrates and it should be working fine... whatever I guess

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Not here to bash... just stating a real issue that Ive had... I love both my apex units... this is just a real situation that Im trying to explain to OP...

 

[CMO]

Do you what you can get for the cost of 2 does? Am talking solid American or German design dosers with more than 2 heads and 5 to 10 years warranty?
Do you know most of what you can get will have cloud component or simply can be connected to a simple apex?
Do you know how much a khg thay test and control kh cost?
Now donot you think that the warrante that neptune is giving is useless when you need to buy back ups for your equipments?
Am not picking on you, you already invested there and I wish you luck, I am merely pointing out that there are options so reefers who read this forum can comb through the noise.
One thing I have noticed on forms is that people will rave about equipment even though they face issues...I do not know why...its human psychology I guess..we want ppl to be in the same shoes we are in ha ha.

All respect to you btw, I used to be the same with the kessil wagon until one day I realized that this is not about equipment, it's about the coral and systems.

So just to reiterate, I am not a Neptune brand loyalist or blind to other products that work well. For example I do not use Neptune pumps or auto top off because I believe there are better options.

The value of Neptune to me is having everything in one place. If I use one of said other manufacturers wifi dosers I now have 2 sets of network devises I have to monitor regularly which also opens me to multiple potential network fail points (using one as a backup is a different story than multiple main network devices). This only gets worse as the range of unrelated network devices expands.

I am unaware of any doser compatible with apex like you mention (or with the same ease of dose management). I would be very interested in checking them out if they do exist so please let me know what doser you may be referring to.

And no worries any disagreements. This is all healthy debate imo.

 

[road_runner]

So just to reiterate, I am not a Neptune brand loyalist or blind to other products that work well. For example I do not use Neptune pumps or auto top off because I believe there are better options.

The value of Neptune to me is having everything in one place. If I use one of said other manufacturers wifi dosers I now have 2 sets of network devises I have to monitor regularly which also opens me to multiple potential network fail points (using one as a backup is a different story than multiple main network devices). This only gets worse as the range of unrelated network devices expands.

I am unaware of any doser compatible with apex like you mention (or with the same ease of dose management). I would be very interested in checking them out if they do exist so please let me know what doser you may be referring to.

And no worries any disagreements. This is all healthy debate imo.

Totally get it brother. Am not accusing you of anything. You are actually super honest in your posts and I applauded you for that.
Here is what I do and been for years. Btw I have big system with very expensive sps collection that's why I cannot afford playing let's try and see with neptune.
Kh CA control. I use khg which was one of the best investment I did in my tank. Kh dosing is taken care off by khg. CA dosing I have used multiple pumps most of which can be connected to apex once you realze that apex is better on off switch. all were good. As you know CA do not need super fine dosing tune. You change on weekly basis depending on the kh consumption.
Then recently I added a datsaco calicum reactor. Paired with my khg game was over...super steady system.
For lights I use the app lights since I need to change like once or twice a year. All apps have cloud component as am sure you know.
My zeo reactor I use japanese zeo reactor called prs auto zeo reactor..absolute top of the line machine. That's the 2nd best investment I did in the tank.
For skimmer i use bubble king mini, paired with cheap collection container that trigger if filled or skimmer overflows.
Pumps I switched from vectra which was super disappointing pump to red dragon3 100 watt. I thought I was saving 200$ when I got the vectra later to realize I wasted 500$ with vectra
Power heads the one and only mp40s and mp 60s.

Now what's connected to apex are(again for on off function)
Temp prob...good experience
Salinity prob...horrible prob but i use it for relative indication not absolut.
Heater control
Skimmer so I can turn on off during water change
My khg using their module so I get my kh readings on fusion.
Flow meters via fmm and atk that I gave up on them as they are horrible.
My ATO I use the good old breakout box from apex paired with 2 floats.
Chiller on off.
My zeo reactor in off
Ph prob..good experience thus far of I do proper calibration every couple of months.
Finally some water on flow sensor which I also gave up on since both atk and fmm lock up and become useless couple of times a week...

 

[scott11106]

i am also a lucky one i gather, things work perfectly as i would expect, i also know that probes need to be calibrated and everything needs to be watched as it is not perfect so as i keep that in mind all things seem to work great.

 

[road_runner]

Oh forgot to mention on my frag tank. I got the cheapest apex there is. Invested in a 2nd khg, a good royal execlusive skimmer DC180, another prs zeo reactor a ghl doser and stenner pump for ATO which turned out to be incredible quality.
I will admit that i tinker alot and experiment alot. I just have realized where money better spent to enjoy the hobby that is about watching animal thrive not looking at fancy dashboards lol.

 

[ReeferBean]

I'm thinking a visual will help here. Because it can monitor all this reliably and easily!! Makes reef keeping practical. I can travel and still know exactly what's going on with my tank and make adjustments as needed.

Your using a FMM to monitor POO? Interesting.

 

[CMO]

Your using a FMM to monitor POO? Interesting.

Lol. Long story. Not anymore.

 

[PhilT]

yes, only issue with the EL is not 0-10v capability and i have Octo pumps.

Can you explain the 0-10v capability? Is it a common thing? What devices use it, is it a special plug/connector for power?

Thanks

 

[Zerobytes]

I highly doubt Apex is best of breed in anything they deliver, but what you pay for and get is breadth and pretty seamless integration of a lot of different components. For some folks that is worth it, for others not so much.