What would lead to a fish dying in a bag?

[Chrizzolla]

Basically. What would lead to a fish dying in the bag while being temperature acclimated? The fish was in the bag less than an hour. Yellow Tail Damselfish if that helps in any way.

 

[James M]

Ammonia , most likey stressed

 

[Chrizzolla]

Ammonia

What do you mean??

 

[James M]

How long did u have him in the bag

 

[HotRocks]

Ammonia if the bag wasn't sealed tight with pure oxygen.

 

[tiggs]

Ammonia and oxygen deprivation are the two primary culprits. Assuming the bag had plenty of air sealed in it and wasn't completely still, that's probably not the cause though. When fish make waste, it turns into ammonia rather quickly. In a cycled tank, it'll go through the entire nitrogen cycle and pass through safely. In a bag, this isn't the case since there's no biological filtration and the ammonia will hang around. Ammonia can be toxic to fish in pretty much all amounts, so vendors typically purge their fish the day before shipping to cut down on waste and the resulting ammonia build-up. Pretty much 100% of the bag water you get shipped will have some traces of ammonia in it, so that's a big part of the reason more folks are starting to get away from extremely lengthy drip acclimations these days.

With that being said, you mentioned the fish was only in the bag for about an hour, so that really shouldn't be long enough to produce enough waste and ammonia to kill it, unless the water already had ammonia in it. The fish could have also been on its way out regardless and the added stress of transportation put it over the top. The only other thing that would make sense is if Prime or some other ammonia reducer was added to the bag water at any point. Many stores/vendors run copper in their systems, so combining ammonia reducer to copper is extremely toxic.

 

[Chrizzolla]

How long did u have him in the bag

About 45 minutes give or take.

 

[Chrizzolla]

Ammonia and oxygen deprivation are the two primary culprits. Assuming the bag had plenty of air sealed in it and wasn't completely still, that's probably not the cause though. When fish make waste, it turns into ammonia rather quickly. In a cycled tank, it'll go through the entire nitrogen cycle and pass through safely. In a bag, this isn't the case since there's no biological filtration and the ammonia will hang around. Ammonia can be toxic to fish in pretty much all amounts, so vendors typically purge their fish the day before shipping to cut down on waste and the resulting ammonia build-up. Pretty much 100% of the bag water you get shipped will have some traces of ammonia in it, so that's a big part of the reason more folks are starting to get away from extremely lengthy drip acclimations these days.

With that being said, you mentioned the fish was only in the bag for about an hour, so that really shouldn't be long enough to produce enough waste and ammonia to kill it, unless the water already had ammonia in it. The fish could have also been on its way out regardless and the added stress of transportation put it over the top. The only other thing that would make sense is if Prime or some other ammonia reducer was added to the bag water at any point. Many stores/vendors run copper in their systems, so combining ammonia reducer to copper is extremely toxic.

So, if the water itself had ammonia beforehand, and was injected, I guess thats how its said, with pure oxygen, would 45 minutes be enough for it to react and kill the fish?

 

[James M]

Tiggs explained it

 

[tiggs]

So, if the water itself had ammonia beforehand, and was injected, I guess thats how its said, with pure oxygen, would 45 minutes be enough for it to react and kill the fish?

It's really hard to say. If the fish was taken out of an established system, the chances of ammonia being in the bag water when added are low and the chances of the fish producing enough waste in 45-60 minutes to cause ammonia poisoning aren't great either. If I had to guess blindly, I'd say the fish was probably already on its way out and the added stress of the transport put it over the edge. The only other thing that would seem more likely would be adding ammonia reducer to the bag water while bagging it up + having copper in the system the water was taken from.

 

[Chrizzolla]

It's really hard to say. If the fish was taken out of an established system, the chances of ammonia being in the bag water when added are low and the chances of the fish producing enough waste in 45-60 minutes to cause ammonia poisoning aren't great either. If I had to guess blindly, I'd say the fish was probably already on its way out and the added stress of the transport put it over the edge. The only other thing that would seem more likely would be adding ammonia reducer to the bag water while bagging it up + having copper in the system the water was taken from.

Well, the system is copperles as it houses inverts aswell. No ammonia reducer added. So its really weird for it to happen.


Would the water from the tank being too different from that of the bag have an effect?

 

[4FordFamily]

Was the bag opened when you were floating the fish?

 

[Chrizzolla]

If it means anything, the bag was closes when the fish died, it wasnt even opened.

 

[Chrizzolla]

Was the bag opened when you were floating the fish?

No.

 

[4FordFamily]

No.

Ran out of oxygen or the water became too foul. Sorry. I don’t wait long I float for about ten minutes or begin acclimating in a bucket ASAP over a course of no more than 15 minutes.

 

[Chrizzolla]

Ran out of oxygen or the water became too foul. Sorry. I don’t wait long I float for about ten minutes or begin acclimating in a bucket ASAP over a course of no more than 15 minutes.

It takes about 40 minutes from the lfs to my house. I set it to float, while waiting the fish became, what I can only describe as frantic, jumped once and turned upside down. It was floating for about 5 minutes give or take.

 

[4FordFamily]

It takes about 40 minutes from the lfs to my house. I set it to float, while waiting the fish became, what I can only describe as frantic, jumped once and turned upside down. It was floating for about 5 minutes give or take.

Perhaps trauma from being caught at the LFS. Was the bag primarily air or water?

I didn’t realize it was from an LFS.

 

[Chrizzolla]

It was more air than water.

 

[Maritimer]

This might sound nutty, but is it possible for a fish to have a heart attack, stroke, or similar issue? This wouldn't be the first time I've heard of perfectly healthy-appearing fish suddenly dashing about and just ... dying.

There might not have been one single thing you could have done, Chrizzolla.

~Bruce

 

[DeniseAndy]

I am sorry for your loss. A 45min drive and 5 min float should not kill a fish that is healthy. However, the fact that the fish went spaz is a sign of distress. It could have died of stress, or ammonia issues will do this to fish too. Maybe lack of dissolved 02, but sounds more like a major distress (transport, ammonia, etc).