whats your thoughts on LiveAquaria and Divers Den

[Reef Box]

I have been using L.A. for as long as I can remember (back when it used to be called Flying Fish Express). I have always been happy with the quality of the livestock that they carry as well as their "arrive alive stay alive guarantee". I've recently been looking into their Divers Den selection and wonder if I'm better off buying from there rather than QTing on my own. The price difference is pretty substantial but by the time I buy all the meds (copper, metro, praziquantel, etc) and spend the time (often losing the fish at some point anyway) am I better off spending the extra cash on a fish that's already been treated? According to the website the fish in the DD are observed for health, treated for common parasites, ich/velvet and clown fish are treated for Brooklynella. Has anyone bought from DD and had issues with any of the things that they say they treat for? From your experience, if I buy from the DD then QT/Observe only for a couple weeks can I be confident that I can release the fish into my DT without introducing any parasites/disease. Or am I better off continuing to QT/Treat fish on my own to be 100% sure? @Humblefish , @4FordFamily , @melypr1985 , @HotRocks.

What Say You??

 

[Humblefish]

I would still QT any DD specimens. Even if you don't want to prophylactically medicate, at least observe for 1 month before adding the fish to your DT.

 

[HotRocks]

I have been using L.A. for as long as I can remember (back when it used to be called Flying Fish Express). I have always been happy with the quality of the livestock that they carry as well as their "arrive alive stay alive guarantee". I've recently been looking into their Divers Den selection and wonder if I'm better off buying from there rather than QTing on my own. The price difference is pretty substantial but by the time I buy all the meds (copper, metro, praziquantel, etc) and spend the time (often losing the fish at some point anyway) and I better off spending the extra? According to the website the fish in the DD are observed for health, treated for common parasites, ich/velvet and clown fish are treated for Brooklynella. Has anyone bought from DD and had issues with any of the things they say they treat for. From your experience, if I buy from the DD QT/Observe for a couple weeks can I be confident that I can release the fish into my DT without introducing any parasites/desease. Am I better off continuing to QT/Treat fish on my own to be 100% sure? @Humblefish , @4FordFamily , @melypr1985 , @HotRocks.

What Say You??

I have bought several fish from DD. I still self QT and prophylactically treat them all the same. I will say fish that come from DD do seem to be healthier and usually eat without any trouble.

I don't trust their treatment for disease any more than an LA fish though.

That's my .02

 

[Baldguy]

With LA you are getting fish straight from the wholesaler. Not better or worse than any other source. LA/DD customer service is the best in the business so that's a big plus. With DD it's not a true QT but it's better than nothing. At least the fish have been observed and treated for anything obvious. For me the fact that DD is WYSIWYG is a very big plus.

 

[4FordFamily]

I’ve received several sick fish from DD including fish afflicted with velvet. The real benefit in my opinion is that the fish are established to captivity and eating.

 

[ca1ore]

The real benefit in my opinion is that the fish are established to captivity and eating.

Yes, completely agree. I had some DD fish arrive with what appeared to be velvet. Nothing I did could save them. DD is still overall THE BEST source of fish, but nothing is perfect. Thus the need to do your own QT.

 

[Antics]

I think calling DD the best may be a bit of a stretch for some species or specialty fish. I've had better luck from other vendors such as NYAquatic. But if we're talking about general ease of ordering, customer service etc. then I think DD is hard to beat in terms of their guarantees. As far as relying on their conditioning/quarantine protocols... I wouldn't.

 

[ca1ore]

I think calling DD the best may be a bit of a stretch for some species or specialty fish. I've had better luck from other vendors such as NYAquatic. But if we're talking about general ease of ordering, customer service etc. then I think DD is hard to beat in terms of their guarantees. As far as relying on their conditioning/quarantine protocols... I wouldn't.

It's something of an apples-oranges comparison though. None of the other vendors do a conditioning/pseudo-QT like DD - at least, not that I am aware of. If you are looking for difficult fish, paying the DD premium gives you the best chance for success. Doesn't mean they stock everything, of course; nor is it worth IMO to buy easy fish off DD. NYAquatic is a good vendor, and Michael tends to get larger fish that you won't see on DD - large species from the Naso genus for example.

 

[Tikosyn]

So far I have only stocked my tank with fish from DD exclusively and have no QT, no problems yet. Yes I know I should QT, please don't yell at me! I have also heard good things about TSM corals, is it true they QT every fish? Can anyone verify this? Was thinking about using them when I eventually get some tangs because of how ich prone they can be, not sure DD protocol will be enough.

 

[Antics]

It's something of an apples-oranges comparison though. None of the other vendors do a conditioning/pseudo-QT like DD - at least, not that I am aware of. If you are looking for difficult fish, paying the DD premium gives you the best chance for success. Doesn't mean they stock everything, of course; nor is it worth IMO to buy easy fish off DD. NYAquatic is a good vendor, and Michael tends to get larger fish that you won't see on DD - large species from the Naso genus for example.

Good points but I think that really is the heart of the thread. Is DD's inflated price worth the psuedo conditioning/QT? Because that's what you're ultimately paying for in the end. If you quarantine your own fish there this means buying at the DD price is definitely (or at least most likely) not worth it.

So far I have only stocked my tank with fish from DD exclusively and have no QT, no problems yet. Yes I know I should QT, please don't yell at me! I have also heard good things about TSM corals, is it true they QT every fish? Can anyone verify this? Was thinking about using them when I eventually get some tangs because of how ich prone they can be, not sure DD protocol will be enough.

It's hard to trust any vendor that says they do a quarantine. It's not about them being shady, but its hard to trust myself when I'm doing my own quarantine procedures... and I'm immensely more focused and concerned about it as they're my fish. Consider the size of a business and the work involved. Think about your own job. Have you ever at work been lazy for a bit, cut corners you knew you shouldn't, or not fully commit to doing something the textbook correct way? This doesn't even have to be work related. Think of every time you've sneezed in your hand and not immediately washed your hands before interacting with shared surfaces etc.

What I'm getting at is no matter what you do its very hard to trust that another person will not let you down whether it be intentionally or otherwise. You are the last line of defense when it comes to disease or pests entering your aquarium. Are you comfortable relying on someone else to do that? It's all about the risk assessment.

 

[ca1ore]

It's hard to trust any vendor that says they do a quarantine.

To me, a proper QT is taking a fish, or small group of the same fish from the same source, and isolating them in their own tank for at least a month. Anything less than this does not rise to the level of proper for me. It really hard for any vendor that deals at scale, to do this.

 

[Antics]

To me, a proper QT is taking a fish, or small group of the same fish from the same source, and isolating them in their own tank for at least a month. Anything less than this does not rise to the level of proper for me. It really hard for any vendor that deals at scale, to do this.

Of course. It's really impractical to consider an operation the size of DD or LA to have a full out quarantine program. If they did, the cost of fish would likely triple or more. On the other hand, if there was a vendor who had an impeccable reputation offering quarantine service I'd be willing to pay the premium. It's paying a premium for a half measure that is a hold up for me. If it isn't all the way its pointless in the grand scheme of things (for people who commit to a full quarantine for their systems).

 

[HotRocks]

Of course. It's really impractical to consider an operation the size of DD or LA to have a full out quarantine program. If they did, the cost of fish would likely triple or more. On the other hand, if there was a vendor who had an impeccable reputation offering quarantine service I'd be willing to pay the premium. It's paying a premium for a half measure that is a hold up for me. If it isn't all the way its pointless in the grand scheme of things (for people who commit to a full quarantine for their systems).

This ^^^^ Coming soon at a cost of 35% more than retail...

I do like ordering finiky eaters from DD they seem to eat much easier other than that they still get my full QT protocol.

 

[ca1ore]

Coming soon at a cost of 35% more than retail.

Yeah ..... I'm skeptical ..... not that it's coming, but that it's a viable business model. I just don't see how the numbers work, but I hope they do.

 

[Reef Box]

Thanks everyone for chiming in. It looks pretty unanimous, I'll go with DD to ensure I start with a fish that is "healthy" and eating. I'll still QT and prophylactically treat from there. Looks like it'll cost a little more from the start but looks like the best option in the long run.

 

[Captain Quint]

Perhaps I've been lucky with DD. I have never received an ill critter and have always like buying without it being a 'pig in a poke'.

But all the years buying from them I still did a QT.

 

[foxt]

+1 for DD. If there is an issue with the fish, they are great to deal with. Some here have recommended NY Aquatic; I suggest you read reviews before considering that one, I have had nothing but trouble with that vendor.
Have probably purchased 40 fish from Divers Den, and 90% of the fish have been in good shape. For the 10% that did have an issue, I was taken care of, no questions asked.

 

[BestMomEver]

I have had better luck with DD then any LFS in my area. The general LA fish population is only treated if something obvious pops up. They aren’t treated prophylactically. With DD fish, I quarantine for 1-2 weeks (my QT is really smal...stress for fish). Any others stay in QT for a month. I have tried other vendors, even recently, but still go back to LA.

 

[cracker]

I've never ordered any livestock . I just don't want a fish sight unseen. Lately "every" lfs in town doesn't have a healthy looking fish on my list. I'm not compromising what I put into my tanks just because it looks good to me & not even close to what I have.
That being said, I have considered ordering. Just don't like the idea !

 

[JQSquared]

Most of your LFS and LA get their fish from the same place...