Where does pest responsibility start?

[Pete polyp]

And I have read about your experience with them Ritter, and others. This seems to be the treatment that is the most effective for everyone.

But I still just can't believe it to be that easy. If it was then there would be no exception to having a frag with aefw. If dipping was added into fragging procedures then how would they ever get into a customers hands?

I'm not saying this isn't possible, but it just seems too easy. It wouldn't be hard (especially for vendors with multiple tanks) to do this with every single frag. It wouldn't be that hard for the average hobbyists to do the same either.

 

[turbo21]

I recently broke all the acros out of my 75 to rid the tank of aefw and red bugs. I've had red bugs for a while but got aefw last year even though I dip everything. There were zero flatworm eggs on healthy tissue. I fragged every coral making sure not to add any rock, plug or skeleton to the dip. I only dipped living acro parts with no bare skeleton exposed. It's been over a month and I haven't seen any aefw in the frag tank. I did the same process and put them back in the 75 and so far they look great and appear to be pest free. From now on no plugs or base rock will go into my tank no matter who the coral is from.

+1

Ritter I did the same exact thing to help a buddy rid aefw in his tank

His bases had tons and tons of eggs. Also lots of eggs I. The middle of the colonies on dead branches

Got rid of every base. And dead spot. Dipped in bayer and never saw another aefw. Kept everything in a seperate tank at my house whe he ran fallow. And now everything is back to perfect

No bases enter my tank and any encrusted frags get the branch snapped off before getting dipped and going in

I said it before. Only put the live tissue in your tank and you have a 100% chance of not bringing eggs in your system.

 

[turbo21]

And I have read about your experience with them Ritter, and others. This seems to be the treatment that is the most effective for everyone.

But I still just can't believe it to be that easy. If it was then there would be no exception to having a frag with aefw. If dipping was added into fragging procedures then how would they ever get into a customers hands?

I'm not saying this isn't possible, but it just seems too easy. It wouldn't be hard (especially for vendors with multiple tanks) to do this with every single frag. It wouldn't be that hard for the average hobbyists to do the same either.

One reason vendors don't do this is because when you remove the base you now have to let the colonies heal which means more time in the store and if say a vendor brings in 60 colonies. They may have to spend several hours cutting and remounting

Then you have the fact that some vendors don't care. Especially chop shops. If they are cutting up colonies the day they come in and shipping the next. Do you really think they want to wait for the newly mounted colonies to heal and stabalize?

And for a vendor to start over using this procedure they have to start in a fresh system without aefw. No sense in remounting and dipping if they are going in a system that already has worms in it

A lot of vendors obviously don't monitor what the frags look like that get shipped out the door (fresh cuts,pale and colorless and aefw bites all over). So do you think that kind of vendor would take more
Time to do things the right way?

 

[Pete polyp]

Do I think they will? No. Can they? Certainly.

It would definitely cost some money and time for anyone who would be selling from a system that has aefw. Is it impractical for those vendors that do care to eradicate aefw from the system? I don't think it is. Usually they have more than one system. They could shut down one system until its completely free of pests. They could remove everything and start from scratch in one system. Yes it will cost money. But IMO it would be better to spend a little money to prevent losing a business. I could see a business using the same system in a very short period of time if they were to take everything out and sterilize the tank and all equipment. It could probably be done in less time than letting it sit empty for the appropriate time.

I do agree with selling colonies it would become time consuming. However with frags it wouldn't be much time added to the process.

Hopefully there will become procedures for vendors that do care, and they can eliminate aefw. As far as the ones who don't care, let them fail.

 

[that Reef Guy]

Who's job is it? Ultimately, it is the hobbyists to be proactive and dip to protect their own tanks. But should vendors and even wholesalers take the time to provide quality pest free marine life or not?

What about the vendors that are really busy?

Please don't name names here - I'd like to get feedback to see if I'm off base after another thread was stalled due to becoming off track.

Thoughts?

Good Vendors Dip their Corals.

Some Vendors Dip Corals three times with different products before they offer it for sale.

 

[revhtree]

Lot's of pest discussion lately so I thought I would bring this back to life!

 

[Pete polyp]

Are we starting to see a bunch of aefw again? With the knowledge we have now I figured it was a thing of the past.

 

[LaurenA]

I think everyone is responsible for each piece of livestock from ocean to tank. These are living creatures and their health should be a priority to everyone who handles them. I haven't set up my first tank yet but I have bought my quarantine tank and I will have medications pre purchased.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I received corals from a hobbyist who was breaking down a very large tank due to a move. His tank was infested with AEFW. I found out after the fact (from multiple sources) that he knew about the infestation long before breaking down his tank. He failed to mention any of this to me. I've been told he did the same thing to several others who, like me, were holding his corals for him until he set up a tank in his next house. He ended up charging me for the privilege of holding his corals for him. He demanded several hundred dollars just as I was about to get in my car to leave. I found out after the fact that this was a tactic he frequently used in business transactions. It was extremely awkward and strange. This person is still active in his local reef club. I honestly don't know how he can show his face after knowingly distributing AEFW infested corals to the local community with no disclosure. It really bothers me, but as has been stated, in this hobby, responsibility lies with the last man in the chain. Luckily I QT so this situation wasn't disastrous for me. But I'm not sure if the same can be said for everyone else. As to whether this person should be publicly flamed or not, for me the jury is still out. I've kept this story to myself up until now, but I'm still not comfortable naming names. I have first hand knowledge of just how shady this person is, but I don't want to hold court on an online forum. I even have damning text messages I could screen shot, but it just isn't worth it for me to take it that far. I don't want to start a he said she said battle where I somehow lose in the end. Moral of the story is, buyer beware and ALWAYS QT! Even when you think you're dealing with a friend.

 

[AQSstudent]

I always tell all of our customers to dip corals, and QT fish, and I always offer to feed/dip the fish for them before purchasing. As somebody who loves reef tanks, I'm obviously not wishing to sabotage somebody's tank. The retort I get, 95% of the time, is "I have done this for years, and never had a problem with it(disease)". And to that I say good luck, QTing is the only way to guarantee it doesn't get into your tank. Same goes for corals. If I know a coral has parasites on it, I will not sell that particular coral. Even if a coral looks good, I always advise on using some form of a reef dip - and maybe 25% of the time, the response is "I've never dipped before, and don't have any problems yet, so I'll pass on that $15 bottle of coral dip for now".

I always emphasize that it's their responsibility for any potential pathogens introduced into the tank, because as a full retail store there is simply no way to stay on top of the millions of organisms in reef tanks. And yet, at least once a week, somebody comes in saying that they have some type of new nuisance algae or a fish broke out with ich or something, and that it's the store's fault because their tank was fine for x amount of time before they bought one of our products. They then end up disliking me, as I have to tell them that I gave them more than fair warning and instructed them on proper research and quarantine procedures and they decided not to listen.

It's unfortunate that the silent majority of hobbyists don't value a quarantine process until it is too late. It's a shame, because ich really is a very treatable parasite, but it seems that people's impatience ("I've spent so much money on this tank already, I just want fish right now!!!") really gets the best of them and their animals.

 

[Lowstorm]

I am of the stance that we could completely wipe out the pest issues if everyone took a month (including every lfs, supplier, online store) and actually treated. Importers should automatically treat when fish/inverts/etc come in. The only thing that shouldn't be treated is uncured live rock. Imagine us.. not having pests. It'd be wonderful.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

I would have a heart attack if someone treated my stuff..... any of it. I don't like the fact there is low levels of copper in many of the wholesalers tanks. If I had a choice of one sitting in low level copper and one not, I would select not.

 

[Pete polyp]

I would have a heart attack if someone treated my stuff..... any of it. I don't like the fact there is low levels of copper in many of the wholesalers tanks. If I had a choice of one sitting in low level copper and one not, I would select not.

Depends on what we are talking about here. The original intention of this thread was to find out where the responsibility should start to eradicate aefw. I wouldn't be very happy if a vendor wouldn't take the time to dip any incoming acropora in Bayer for 10 minutes to kill them off and dip them again after fragging to sell.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

LOL! The OP needs to do a rewrite of the first post, if that's the intention.

I don't want prophylactic treatments on my stuffz. Coral... Fish... Inverts... let me make that decision. If there's an obvious issue, that's different.

 

[Colin Chaplin]

Hi, Just like to say that it should start from a professional supplier who knows what they are doing and dealing with, to give the customer the best product. Then it becomes the responsibility of the owners, keepers of that product to look after and care for. Ok it might come down at a premium price, but with good sound advice and with some guarantee the product is going to be good and should be in good condition, especially for a beginner and experience owners alike. Experience owners maybe can shop around for the bargains as they know, should know what they are looking out for but at some risk with not knowing, familiar with the supplier and everyone can make, have made mistakes so it's really up to the owners for the responsability to make sure they are getting the best and everything is good in there set up wise. Colin.