Why are Gem tangs so expensive?

[ca1ore]

Pretty much like everyone has said, limited collection areas, huge shipping risks and cost and somewhat rare in the wild, plus then you add on cost so that the people doing this can make money. Its not surprising that they cost as much as they do. I am sure you could turn it into a profitable company but you would operate on thin margins and the loss of one fish could take you out of the game. Also you have to consider the fact that few people are going to be willing to drop that kind of cash on a fish, so this limits your market by a lot.

I was wondering how many posts it was going to take for somebody to make note of the fact that the addressable market for any $3K fish is vanishingly small. I know very little about how rare the Gem may or may not be, or the vagaries of exporting livestock from that part of the world, but that there has not been a rush to 'exploit' suggest that the economics are in fact not all that appealing.

 

[4FordFamily]

I was wondering how many posts it was going to take for somebody to make note of the fact that the addressable market for any $3K fish is vanishingly small. I know very little about how rare the Gem may or may not be, or the vagaries of exporting livestock from that part of the world, but that there has not been a rush to 'exploit' suggest that the economics are in fact not all that appealing.

Yeah, I agree. But if the fish didn't have to absorb the losses of the other offerings it wouldn't have to be as expensive.

And I agree that perhaps the whole story isn't depicted, or else others might do this.

However, it could also be poor business management. I am sure there is more at work here then any of us truly understand. It just seems moronic to do things the way described with what limited information is available

 

[4FordFamily]

Heck if I thought there was really a seizable/profitable venture here I wouldn't be posting about it I would be doing it! Don't need you all competing!

 

[KoleTang]

Here is a speech from MACNA about the Mauritius collection family that @pciscott mentioned.

I heard from some SA guys that collection is easier to achieve, but the catch cannot be sold for profit in most cases. (I can't remember a source. Perhaps @MistaOrange has some input on that)

Apparently there are a few people down there who pay a lot of money for a 5g bucket of water that happens to have a fish in it if you know what I mean... This is frowned upon and illegal of course and doesn't speak for the SA reefing community as a whole.

 

[4FordFamily]

Here is a speech from MACNA about the Mauritius collection family that @pciscott mentioned.

I heard from some SA guys that collection is easier to achieve, but the catch cannot be sold for profit in most cases.

Apparently there are some people down there who pay a lot of money for a 5g bucket of water that happens to have a fish in it if you know what I mean...

i will have to check that out tomorrow.

 

[skrivan]

very interesting discussion. I travel to south Africa on occasion, like once every 5 years. Does anyone know if it's possible to bring one home to US by hand carrying it? Would the TSA allow you on the plane with it in a bag/cooler/container? thanks

 

[Shep]

That is true about the smaller market. But if costs were driven down you might be able to sell more, assuming supply was there.

I also hear gem tangs are pretty hardy, like other zebrasoma tangs. So that also strikes me as odd.

Cost might not be able to be driven down all the much. The cost of operations might be high enough that selling the fish for less could result in almost no profit or even a loss.

 

[4FordFamily]

Cost might not be able to be driven down all the much. The cost of operations might be high enough that selling the fish for less could result in almost no profit or even a loss.

I can't imagine fixed costs being that high, but I could certainly be wrong. That would be an example of the benefit of economies of scale though.

Still, it doesn't make sense to sell the preponderance of your products at a loss

 

[ca1ore]

Still, it doesn't make sense to sell the preponderance of your products at a loss

Well, you just make it up in volume .....

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

very interesting discussion. I travel to south Africa on occasion, like once every 5 years. Does anyone know if it's possible to bring one home to US by hand carrying it? Would the TSA allow you on the plane with it in a bag/cooler/container? thanks

I have heard that it is possible to bring fish as carry-ons and even that the TSA liquid amounts are different, as it is a living thing. I'm not sure if the country you are flying from matters. I have never looked into it though and all of that seems to change frequently, so my info may be outdated already.

 

[4FordFamily]

Well, you just make it up in volume .....

That only works if you make money on the volume

 

[eatbreakfast]

The collector is not selling the conmon fish for a loss, the importer is taking the loss.

The quantity of gem tangs that would have to be collected would have to drastically increase to drop the price on gem tangs. If they in theory doubled what they were able to collect would that drop the price in half? Would you like to do 2x the work to make the same amount of money. Besides, even at $1500 I seriously doubt you would double the amount of people that would spend that vs those that are willing to spend $3000.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

I think that there is a very limited market for any given fish. Even if you could get Gem Tang prices down to $1000, I can't imagine there being much profit, and demand, to warrant the trouble. IMO, the average aquarist isn't going to drop that kind of cash.

 

[evolved]

they are seasonal at reasonable collection depths and the Mauritius government limits exportation. Nobody can just go there and collect without a permit & they aren’t giving any out – let alone to foreigners.

Exactly!

However, it could also be poor business management.

As a friend of Meneeka, she would find that statement offensive.

Here is a speech from MACNA about the Mauritius collection family that @pciscott mentioned.

Thank you; was just coming back in here to post that. I was sitting in that room, and I would encourage everyone in this discussion to watch the video.

I travel to south Africa on occasion, like once every 5 years. Does anyone know if it's possible to bring one home to US by hand carrying it? Would the TSA allow you on the plane with it in a bag/cooler/container? thanks

TSA isn't the problem (you can fly within the USA legally with live fish in carry on - certain procedures need apply), but violating export/import laws is a problem. Customs won't let you walk on by.

 

[4FordFamily]

I guess I am saying 1000 is probably still expensive if the fish didn't have to carry losses for the common fish, be they assigned at any point in the value chain.

All theoretical, good discussion guys

 

[cope413]

I think you all missed the obvious, scientific answer to this question. It lies in their scientific name - Gemmulapisces perfaeces - which you latin speakers ought to know roughly translates to "fish who poops gems".

$3000 may seem like a lot, but not for a pretty little spotted guy who craps out diamonds instead of coral food.

It is important to point out, and I think Randy and some of the other chemistry guys would agree, that their unique talent may, or may not, be adequate carbon dosing for your tank.

Surprised no one else knew.

 

[ca1ore]

That only works if you make money on the volume

I wasn't serious - its an old economics joke

 

[Nemo's Janitor]

Gem Tangs don't only get exported from Mauritius. We get larger volumes from Madagascar at a better price. The Mauritius supplier limits export of Gem Tangs to 3 per shipment. This is not the case with the Madagascan exporter where volumes of 20 to 30 can be ordered.

Gem Tangs are available in our South African waters. Reefers can obtain a aquarium collection permit and are allowed to collect a maximum of ten fish of any species that is not protected or is not on the invasive species lists. There is a stipulation that these fish are not allowed to be traded, sold, bought, bartered, donated or given away. Also there are no commercial collection permits issued. This means that any marine ornamental caught in South Africa and sold is illegal.

Permits to import and reexport are available. There are South African companies that are importing live stock from Madagascar, Mozambique, Reunion and Mauritius and then shipping to Europe and the States.

Pricing in South Africa ranges from about R7000.00 to R12000.00. At the current exchange rate that is $730 - $1250

 

[Mesa fish]

When they crack yellow tang breeding zebrasoma tangs will be everywhere. Wild collected clownfish compared to a captive bred. Price is different.

 

[Diesel]

Following this like a GEM!