Will low alkalinity hurt corals?

Privateye

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that is incorrect

@ Privateye & ThePurple12

I would strongly reccomend you skim this article by the man, the myth the legend himself.


Snipets about Kalk progression in saltwater as an alk supplement

Kalk dissolves in water

CaO + H2O >>>> Ca(OH)2

Hydroxide component of kalk interacts with CO2 in the water to form useable carbonate for calcifying corals

OH- + CO2 >>>> HCO3-
OH- + HCO3- >>>> CO3-- + H2O

If I'm correct (hey, I don't know everything) these are partially true. Kalk does not increase your carbonate as much as that it increases you pH, which is an indirect way of increasing alkalinity as noted. It has limits in the reef aquarium though. The balance is related to the pKa graph here:
1602719416474.png


We don't really stray from that middle range in reef aquariums without killing things. Adding bicarbonate will drive you towards the middle of the graph. Adding OH- will drive you to the right, if the pH strays from the middle.

That being said, we have no idea what the OP's pH or calcium is, and there are numerous threads about not using kalk at high calcium, as is could drive precipitation of CaCO3. Thus hurting the goal of increasing CO3. CO2 itself affects pH, but not alkalinity. I've seen tanks with a KH of 5-6 with calcium over 900 (the reef version of "old tank syndrome"). I would never recommend kalk for such situations.

So here's what I did. I mixed a ton of kalk (I don't know, a few tablespoons? I dumped it) in a pitcher of RO water that had been sitting with air exposure for a week. Here are my test results after 1 hour:
20201014_193856.jpg
20201014_200338.jpg


pH is super high (8.8+) but the KH is <1. Perhaps this would increase over time with more CO2, but again I have gaps in my knowledge that others do not. The pH and alkalinity must both be high in order to convert CO2 into carbonate:


If you raise the alkalinity you will find that your CO2 is actually higher than with lower levels due to the pKa. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding though (I welcome the opportunity to learn).

Here is what really set me down this path: a conversation with the chemist that developed SeaChem's products, who will not tell me a drop of information about ingredients (I'm paraphrasing it's been a year or 2).

Me: So I have a Seachem question for you.

My boss: Okay...

Me: I'm thinking of switching from Aqua Vitro Balance to soda ash. Do you anticipate any issues if I do so?

Boss: What are you trying to accomplish?

Me: I'd like to increase my alkalinity because it drops very quickly with all of my growth.

Boss: First of all, you're using the wrong product. Foundation is more of what you're looking for, and it's more-similar to what you're planning to use.

That's all I got out of him though. I welcome a more in-depth explanation if I'm wrong! I don't quite have it yet though. I've been using kalk for 10 years, but only in certain applications when I worked for an aquarium maintenance company and it was typically coupled with "here's some buffer (soda ash) add a spoon every week in your filter sock".

The real nugget of my posts is that you can get something 2x as strong as baking soda from your local grocery store. It made the difference between my tank making money and losing it. It's something I would never say in a LFS though, unless all of the customers were gone. LFS need those buffer sales!
 
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BradB

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The best my tank ever looked had similar alk levels, lots of growth and kalkwasser only. I don't think that is too low, but I do think you absolutely need to dose daily. Spiking Alkalinity and then letting it go low again repeatedly will kill Acropora. Stability is more important, especially if you are happy with growth.
 

Fishfinder

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@Privateye kalk will increase the alkalinity and the calcium in an aquarium. Kalk fresh mixed in a closed container won’t register and high alk. The kalk reacts with CO2 in the aquarium water to form bicarb and carbonate. That is why it raises ph. But the effect on ph is short because new CO2 is mixed into the water. But the alk will remain elevated from the formed carbonate. This is how it raises the alkalinity
 

Privateye

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@Privateye kalk will increase the alkalinity and the calcium in an aquarium. Kalk fresh mixed in a closed container won’t register and high alk. The kalk reacts with CO2 in the aquarium water to form bicarb and carbonate. That is why it raises ph. But the effect on ph is short because new CO2 is mixed into the water. But the alk will remain elevated from the formed carbonate. This is how it raises the alkalinity

Well noted! the container wasn't closed (as mentioned) so I will leave my pitcher of kalk out and test again see if things change as more CO2 dissolves into it. I'm assuming this will happen as more CO2 is driven to CO3.

If I'm not mistaken, the kalk drives the pH up, which causes more of the CO2 to be in the form CO3. If you add CO3 it's the other way around though - it drives the KH up and can directly fuel stony coral growth. If the pH were to drop with OH- addition, you're back at square one. Again, I welcome an in-depth explanation though.

For all I know, CO2 may be more important for growth via inorganic to organic conversion through zooxanthellae. Really, I'm just looking for technical information!
 
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stephj03

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Well noted! the container wasn't closed (as mentioned) so I will leave my pitcher of kalk out and test again see if things change as more CO2 dissolves into it. I'm assuming this will happen as more CO2 is driven to CO3.

If I'm not mistaken, the kalk drives the pH up, which causes more of the CO2 to be in the form CO3. If you add CO3 it's the other way around though - it drives the KH up and can directly fuel stony coral growth. If the pH were to drop with OH- addition, you're back at square one. Again, I welcome an in-depth explanation though.

For all I know, CO2 may be more important for growth via inorganic to organic conversion through zooxanthellae. Really, I'm just looking for technical information!


You basically agree you just don't know it or don't like the way classic alk dogma was worded.

I put my CaRx on one leg at a time just like every other big tank SPS nut which is where your curve and the answers you received indirectly from SeaChem apply.

OP has a low consumption low volume situation perfectly suited for Kalk.

We could propose you complete your experimental path by measuring alk in response to kalk dosing on a reef tank,. But it's kinda already been done.....

A lot....

By ppl who use it exclusively to supply balanced Ca and Alk to moderately consuming tanks.....

Unfortunately for you, but fortunately for them it's not on them to supply an answer that satisfies you if the actual answer is one you don't like.
 

stephj03

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@ OP. I would suggest going to the chemistry forum and asking if a little bit of kalk in your ATO water will help raise and stabilize your alk for a couple of sps frags.

That is if the thing you enjoy about the hobby is watching corals grow.

If the thing you like most about the hobby is diving deep into the semantics and nomenclature of reef chem, ask Randy if he has time to explain why the above chart and discussion about alk actually still support the use of kalk for your current application.hth
 

stephj03

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I truly don't mean to come across as snarky as I'm sure I do, but these kinds of threads get painful to watch and participate in when they get derailed like this, only to get back on track 5 pages later or not at all.

Please take Randy's check straight to the bank on this.

Please, please, please, please, please.
 

Stigigemla

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It is totally possible to run a SPS reef tank with kH = 5,5. But the corals growth will be slow and new corals need some time to adapt to it. Some may even die of the schock from the changed water values especially if You by frags from tanks with high kH.
With a dosing pump You will have several times faster growth.
 

TexasTodd

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This thread is getting way too over complicated. 5.5 kh isn't going to kill much other than shock as @Stigigemla mentioned. But, things will grow better and better acclimation around 7 kh. Slowly ramping kalk in your ATO is the easiest way (but not the only way). The only real downside is you'll have to clean your ATO pump often unless you use something like an in-line Kalk stirrer.
 

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