Wrasse Swimbladder Issue

Marquiseo · Jun 3, 2015

zibba said:
The wrasse is no longer floating at the top but has found a place in PVC and made a cocoon for the night. It has gone a few days without food so I'll give your feeding method a try if the fish is still alive tomorrow.

It's so sad because I took this video of the fish just a month ago while it was hanging in the acclimation box and it was flashing with the rhomboid. They occasionally flashed like this but it never appeared to get physical.

Great job! I did it incorrectly then because I did not hear any air release. How did you know where to poke? It was hard for me to tell where due to the deep colorations.

zibba · Jun 3, 2015

Marquiseo said:
Great job! I did it incorrectly then because I did not hear any air release. How did you know where to poke? It was hard for me to tell where due to the deep colorations.

Honestly, it was very lucky but I was going off fish anatomy diagrams and the video in the reef builders thread. When I pushed the needle in the first time, I could tell I was in there because I could feel the lack of pressure and I was sucking air out through the needle. And, if you listen closely near the end when I say "did you hear that," you can hear the air release when I removed the needle. Must have been a lot of trauma for the fish. I wish I would have had some MS-222 on hand. It takes several days to ship and I was afraid to wait that long.

By the way, I just looked at your avatar more closely. My favorite fish and the reason I have the trio in my avatar. I have had terrible luck trying to keep them so I've given up. Just spectacularly colored fish though!!

Marquiseo · Jun 3, 2015

zibba said:
Honestly, it was very lucky but I was going off fish anatomy diagrams and the video in the reef builders thread. When I pushed the needle in the first time, I could tell I was in there because I could feel the lack of pressure and I was sucking air out through the needle. And, if you listen closely near the end when I say "did you hear that," you can hear the air release when I removed the needle. Must have been a lot of trauma for the fish. I wish I would have had some MS-222 on hand. It takes several days to ship and I was afraid to wait that long.

By the way, I just looked at your avatar more closely. My favorite fish and the reason I have the trio in my avatar. I have had terrible luck trying to keep them so I've given up. Just spectacularly colored fish though!!

I followed that video too but it was hard to really tell exactly. I looked at the anatomy images too but those were mostly for larger freshwater fish. One video said at the end of the pectoral and another said lift the pectoral fins and poke there. Either way, I didn't here air release and the fish is still upside down. Did your hang upside at the water line or on the bottom of the tank?

Yeah, I love ventralis anthias too but they don't become available as often. I sold that one before a moved a few years ago and have been trying to get another ever since. I had it for months before I had to part with it.

zibba · Jun 3, 2015

It was at the water line before and sank after piercing.

I tried to lift the pectoral fin and aimed just under the lateral line. I'm not sure if I went through the pectoral fin the second time since, as you can see, it fluttered away and I had to re-insert the needle. It was mostly all feel but I could make out a little outline of the internal structure with the backlighting.

Marquiseo · Jun 3, 2015

zibba said:
It was at the water line before and sank after piercing.

I tried to lift the pectoral fin and aimed just under the lateral line. I'm not sure if I went through the pectoral fin the second time since, as you can see, it fluttered away and I had to re-insert the needle. It was mostly all feel but I could make out a little outline of the internal structure with the backlighting.

I'll try once more tomorrow and hopefully that solves it for good, otherwise, I will have to keep force feeding it until it recovers.

zibba · Jun 3, 2015

Sounds like a good plan. Fingers crossed.

4FordFamily · Jun 3, 2015

Wow very cool I am very impressed be looks to be thriving now! Great husbandry and great job!

zibba · Jun 3, 2015

3FordFamily said:
Wow very cool I am very impressed be looks to be thriving now! Great husbandry and great job!

To be clear, the second video was taken before the swim bladder issue came about. Just wanted to showcase how healthy it was and where it's at now.

It was laying at about 30-degrees on the bottom of the qt tank this morning. Gill plates were still moving but it wasn't swimming or anything.

zibba · Jun 3, 2015

Just got word from my better-half that she was able to hand feed him about 3 mysis. It's a start!

Marquiseo · Jun 3, 2015

I have a dilemma. The fish is still on its back fully upside down. When I attempted to turn it upright, it just floats back upside down which means air is trapped somewhere. I can attempt another needle decompression but I don't know if that will fix the issue because the fish is upside down on the bottom of the tank and not at the top near water line. Thoughts?

zibba · Jun 3, 2015

Marquiseo said:
I have a dilemma. The fish is still on its back fully upside down. When I attempted to turn it upright, it just floats back upside down which means air is trapped somewhere. I can attempt another needle decompression but I don't know if that will fix the issue because the fish is upside down on the bottom of the tank and not at the top near water line. Thoughts?

Ours is doing the same, at the bottom of the tank but still belly up. My thinking is that I should just try and wait a few more days to see whether the antibiotics will reduce the inflammation.

We just took this clip of feeding like you did:

Marquiseo · Jun 3, 2015

zibba said:
Ours is doing the same, at the bottom of the tank but still belly up. My thinking is that I should just try and wait a few more days to see whether the antibiotics will reduce the inflammation.

We just took this clip of feeding like you did:

I may do that as well.....You should try a paste food mix instead of solid whole foods. The paste will be easily sucked in when it gulps like in my video.

melypr1985 · Jun 4, 2015

Thanks so much for sharing this guys. It's very informative especially when two people with the exact same fish and problem are comparing treatment in the same thread. I'm very sorry for these sick fish and I really hope all your efforts pay off. Those poor babies.

Marquiseo · Jun 5, 2015

melypr1985 said:
Thanks so much for sharing this guys. It's very informative especially when two people with the exact same fish and problem are comparing treatment in the same thread. I'm very sorry for these sick fish and I really hope all your efforts pay off. Those poor babies.

You're Welcome.

Update:

Finally a good sign!!!! I have been force feeding the fish a food paste mix of crushed flake foods, metroplex, ciprofloxacin, and cyclopeeze. I have noticed that he is starting to regain his strength and swim around the tank(upside down) more when startled which he didn't do initially. He was also laying at less than 30 degrees just now when I found him!!! The best thing that happened was that when he darted this time, he turned upright for a brief moment and swam which is progress! He is on he way surely to recovery!

zibba · Jun 5, 2015

Marquiseo said:
You're Welcome.

Update:

Finally a good sign!!!! I have been force feeding the fish a food paste mix of crushed flake foods, metroplex, ciprofloxacin, and cyclopeeze. I have noticed that he is starting to regain his strength and swim around the tank(upside down) more when startled which he didn't do initially. He was also laying at less than 30 degrees just now when I found him!!! The best thing that happened was that when he darted this time, he turned upright for a brief moment and swam which is progress! He is on he way surely to recovery!

Nice to hear this!

Ours is spending most of the day on the bottom of the tank belly up or on its side. Occasionally it will swim in loops/circles and it's sad to watch. We tried feeding yesterday with the syringe again but it didn't eat. Yesterday was our third treatment of Furan2/Kanaplex. It's not eating food with Metro+focus so I added some to the water. I didn't add MgSO4 the last two days. We did two treatments and will consider doing another one tonight.

Most of the time, the fish is laying on the bottom of the tank nearly lifeless. You can see him looking around and the gill plates moving but otherwise, you'd think he was dead.

I'm wondering if it's time to try a different antibiotic or treatment method. And, I'm wondering if I should attempt lancing the swim bladder again.

4FordFamily · Jun 5, 2015

zibba said:
Nice to hear this!

Ours is spending most of the day on the bottom of the tank belly up or on its side. Occasionally it will swim in loops/circles and it's sad to watch. We tried feeding yesterday with the syringe again but it didn't eat. Yesterday was our third treatment of Furan2/Kanaplex. It's not eating food with Metro+focus so I added some to the water. I didn't add MgSO4 the last two days. We did two treatments and will consider doing another one tonight.

Most of the time, the fish is laying on the bottom of the tank nearly lifeless. You can see him looking around and the gill plates moving but otherwise, you'd think he was dead.

I'm wondering if it's time to try a different antibiotic or treatment method. And, I'm wondering if I should attempt lancing the swim bladder again.

I am no expert but I would think properly discharging the air and pressure in the swim bladder would have significant impacts on his swimming ability within 24 hours. Perhaps another go is worth it

Marquiseo · Jun 5, 2015

zibba said:
Nice to hear this!

Ours is spending most of the day on the bottom of the tank belly up or on its side. Occasionally it will swim in loops/circles and it's sad to watch. We tried feeding yesterday with the syringe again but it didn't eat. Yesterday was our third treatment of Furan2/Kanaplex. It's not eating food with Metro+focus so I added some to the water. I didn't add MgSO4 the last two days. We did two treatments and will consider doing another one tonight.

Most of the time, the fish is laying on the bottom of the tank nearly lifeless. You can see him looking around and the gill plates moving but otherwise, you'd think he was dead.

I'm wondering if it's time to try a different antibiotic or treatment method. And, I'm wondering if I should attempt lancing the swim bladder again.

Mine still acts lifeless until it is startled. I would say continue to treat it. I think it needs to recover before you attempt another decompression. Mine never floated at the top of the water upside but it did on the bottom from the start which makes me think it's a parasite issue as stated above. Yours is pretty much in the state of mine which I beleive yours has a parasite issue too . I am going to continue to force feed until the fish fixes itself. Also, remember that you did puncture the swim bladder so it will need to heal that wound to refill properly.

Marquiseo · Jun 7, 2015

Update:

He can now lie down on his side completely. I will have to feed him multiple times through out the day till he is at 100%. I have stopped using ciprofloxacin but will continue to add metroplex into the food I feed him. I will use the epsom salt every now and then to encourage bowel movement.

gettaReef · Jun 7, 2015

Just wanted to give props to both you guys for all that you're doing to treat your fish...it takes an extremely dedicated and passionate hobbyist to do what you both are doing. Cirrhilabrus lineatus is such an amazingly majestic and beautiful wrasse. Best of luck to you both

zibba · Jun 8, 2015

Marquiseo said:
Update:

He can now lie down on his side completely. I will have to feed him multiple times through out the day till he is at 100%. I have stopped using ciprofloxacin but will continue to add metroplex into the food I feed him. I will use the epsom salt every now and then to encourage bowel movement.

Happy to hear yours is still alive and seemingly getting better.

Mine is still spending most of the day in pvc tubes upside-down but still breathing. Very occasionally, it will be out swimming in essentially-uncontrollable circles and loops. We've continued to "hand feed it" as you demonstrated in the video above 1-2 times per day. It has now gone through 4-rounds of Furan/Kanaplex and, during the last two rounds, we've added metroplex to the water column since the fish wouldn't eat foods soaked in metroplex & focus. We've also treated with epsom salts twice and I've been siphoning out solid poo, which I think is a good sign.

My thought is that I'll do another 50% water change and run a little carbon to strip out the antibiotics. Let it run clean for a day then start a different antibiotic regimen. Thinking erythromycin since I have it on hand. If someone (@Humblefish ?) has a different idea, I'm all ears.

gettaReef said:
Just wanted to give props to both you guys for all that you're doing to treat your fish...it takes an extremely dedicated and passionate hobbyist to do what you both are doing. Cirrhilabrus lineatus is such an amazingly majestic and beautiful wrasse. Best of luck to you both

Thanks! Seeing the fish struggle is never fun but as long as it's still breathing, we're going to keep trying to get him better.