You guys been doing test all wrong?

[Bradsreeeftank]

So guys i just read the directions in the panflit and read this

Note for filling the 1ml titration
syringe:
Raise the plunger of the syringe until the
bottom ring of the plunger (see arrow in
diagram) is at the 1.0 ml mark. The surface
of the liquid will be approximately 0.1 –
0.15 ml below the plunger. Do not try to
remove the air trapped between the liquid
and the plunger. This small volume of air
corresponds to the liquid held inside the


I wanted to post this because many people been telling me to try to get the gap of air out of the plunger, No!!!! so now im gonna retest my water because i added to much water to the plunger!

 

[redfishbluefish]

Your results will be no different. The reason they want you to do this is that it makes no difference and saves you a little bit of titrant. You still read the base of the rubber plunger....not the air gap. If you were to use all of the one milliliter, the tip piece would be filled with air....not titrant. If you were to get rid of the air, that tip would be filled with titrant, which would be a waste.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[RichieT]

Two different plungers. You want to get all the air out of the plunger that has your water in it. The air in the titrant plunger does not matter.

 

[Bradsreeeftank]

But it would take more titrant to change the water because your testing with too much water right?

 

[Bradsreeeftank]

And no richie i dont think thats right dude because red sea just told me you must have air gap between the plunger with your water your testing.

 

[Beradd]

if u look at the syringe u will see the measurements start at the base of the syringe the air bubble is equivalent to the tip they have on the syringe...if you are looking for precise numbers DO NOT remove the bubble from the syringe ....just pull the plunger back slowly till it reaches the line u want.. the measurement will be precise.

 

[Bradsreeeftank]

Yeah i think thats right. just wanted to let other no!

 

[Beradd]

Instructions FTW

 

[Bradsreeeftank]

Whats ftw mean lol sorry im not texting person

 

[NanaReefer]

Talk about complicating things

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Ftw = for the win

 

[RichieT]

It's not much of an arguing point, but you really should remove the air bubbles from the water syringe. The point being that unless you do this, the amount of air in the syringe may vary between measurements. The amount of liquid at the tip of the syringe isn't going to leave the syringe anyway so it doesn't get included in the total volume. That's why they don't include that in the measurements on the side. If you are very careful and never get air bubbles in the syringe then you may be ok, but if you don't get it right every time you will lose precision. That being said, I don't think the small amount of liquid in the tip of the syringe matters very much.

The reason why it doesn't matter if there are air bubbles in the titrant syringe is because you are measuring a difference between where you started and where you finished. Doesn't matter if there is an air bubble in the syringe because the difference of what you titrated in will be the same.

Here are pictures and descriptions for how you should use a syringe. FWIW - for what it's worth

Sometimes the people writing instructions don't understand what they are writing.

Logic FTW

How to Fill a Syringe: 16 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow

 

[Beradd]

with the red sea program if you remove the bubble you will be using 1 to 1.5 ml more than instructed as they have extended tips, for drop size precision... ... If you believe in there products enough to use them. use them as instructed and intended.

 

[RichieT]

with the red sea program if you remove the bubble you will be using 1 to 1.5 ml more than instructed as they have extended tips, for drop size precision... ... If you believe in there products enough to use them. use them as instructed and intended.

Unless you are forcibly ejecting the water from the syringe it is impossible to get more than 1ml out of a 1ml syringe (unless you fill it up past the measurement lines lol).

But again, the measurements on the side of the syringe aren't really that precise so it doesn't matter. It really comes down to consistency in how you use the test kit. Just do it the same way every time an it's all good. The error bars on these tests probably include a few points in either direction.

 

[Bradsreeeftank]

Ftw = for the win

Ok thank you! :smile:

 

[joekool]

They account for the air in the syringe. My salifert says that in the instructions. If you get rid of the air with the tip on you won't get accurate readings.

 

[Beradd]

Unless you are forcibly ejecting the water from the syringe it is impossible to get more than 1ml out of a 1ml syringe (unless you fill it up past the measurement lines lol).

But again, the measurements on the side of the syringe aren't really that precise so it doesn't matter. It really comes down to consistency in how you use the test kit. Just do it the same way every time an it's all good. The error bars on these tests probably include a few points in either direction.

if these were medical syringes I would agree with you Richie, as the space inside a needle is minute. but these are not medical and designed for this application. IE a controlled drop . as u can see in the pic of the titration syringe there is ALOT more room than in the needles in your video and can easily measure 1 to 1.5 ml of space. so in this case directions of the manufacturer should be followed. And if brad has been doing things your way with these his numbers are going to be way off...more than likely causing some of the issues he is having.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

if these were medical syringes I would agree with you Richie, as the space inside a needle is minute. but these are not medical and designed for this application. IE a controlled drop . as u can see in the pic of the titration syringe there is ALOT more room than in the needles in your video and can easily measure 1 to 1.5 ml of space. so in this case directions of the manufacturer should be followed. And if brad has been doing things your way with these his numbers are going to be way off...more than likely causing some of the issues he is having.

I could be wrong, but I think the confusion is over which syringe we're talking about. I think that a Richie is talking about the water syringe and you are taking about the titrant. At least that's what I'm getting from reading the posts. This one in particular...

It's not much of an arguing point, but you really should remove the air bubbles from the water syringe. The point being that unless you do this, the amount of air in the syringe may vary between measurements. The amount of liquid at the tip of the syringe isn't going to leave the syringe anyway so it doesn't get included in the total volume. That's why they don't include that in the measurements on the side. If you are very careful and never get air bubbles in the syringe then you may be ok, but if you don't get it right every time you will lose precision. That being said, I don't think the small amount of liquid in the tip of the syringe matters very much.

The reason why it doesn't matter if there are air bubbles in the titrant syringe is because you are measuring a difference between where you started and where you finished. Doesn't matter if there is an air bubble in the syringe because the difference of what you titrated in will be the same.

Here are pictures and descriptions for how you should use a syringe. FWIW - for what it's worth

Sometimes the people writing instructions don't understand what they are writing.

Logic FTW

How to Fill a Syringe: 16 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow

 

[RichieT]

if these were medical syringes I would agree with you Richie, as the space inside a needle is minute. but these are not medical and designed for this application. IE a controlled drop . as u can see in the pic of the titration syringe there is ALOT more room than in the needles in your video and can easily measure 1 to 1.5 ml of space. so in this case directions of the manufacturer should be followed. And if brad has been doing things your way with these his numbers are going to be way off...more than likely causing some of the issues he is having.

I'll try one more time then I give up. Here is an extreme example for simplification. If you add a 3ml tip on that syringe in the picture it does not add any extra volume to your actual syringe. Your 1ml syringe is still a 1ml syringe. Like the second post pointed out. They likely say in the instructions don't worry about the air bubble because it just doesn't matter and you waste titrant.

 

[Beradd]

I'll try one more time then I give up. Here is an extreme example for simplification. If you add a 3ml tip on that syringe in the picture it does not add any extra volume to your actual syringe. Your 1ml syringe is still a 1ml syringe. Like the second post pointed out. They likely say in the instructions don't worry about the air bubble because it just doesn't matter and you waste titrant.

my apologies, yes i see your point. i miss read one of your post. thank you bannaster... sorry for jacking up your thread here brad. i think we were just arguing over a literal drop of water. the tip of the water filler if the bubble is removed is =.1ml or aprox.6 drops measurable... the tip of the titration syringe the air bubble is = .2 ml or aprox. 12 drops. what your saying is even if u fill them. removing the bubble adding liquid to replace it, the syringe wont let you expel it, getting you to a true value as long as the rubber isn't compressed overly or forced. leaving you with water/titrant in the syringe becoming the waste you mentioned vs air. either way there is margin for error. the important thing is like you said to be consistent. sorry it took me a minute to digest. but thanks for the thought provoking lesson *returning to my troll cave*