Yuk! Help please. I added sodium carbonate to water change water …

[peterhos]

Good Morning All

So, that plan went badly wrong. Yesterday I added a tsp of sodium carbonate to 5 gallons of made up salt water. No problem, so today I thought I would add 1 more tsp to the remaining 4 gallons. The heater and powerhead are now white as are the 4 gallons. Is this why I should have mixed the sodium carbonate into RO water? I added a tsp to a litre of RO which mostly dissolved clearly but did leave a small white stone at the bottom which I removed. So please, is the secret to gradually add the carbonate to some RO water? Years back I used to add a little bicarbonate to my make up water with no problem, so I was surprised when the carbonate precipitated.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Crustaceon]

Good Morning All

So, that plan went badly wrong. Yesterday I added a tsp of sodium carbonate to 5 gallons of made up salt water. No problem, so today I thought I would add 1 more tsp to the remaining 4 gallons. The heater and powerhead are now white as are the 4 gallons. Is this why I should have mixed the sodium carbonate into RO water? I added a tsp to a litre of RO which mostly dissolved clearly but did leave a small white stone at the bottom which I removed. So please, is the secret to gradually add the carbonate to some RO water? Years back I used to add a little bicarbonate to my make up water with no problem, so I was surprised when the carbonate precipitated.

Thanks for your help.

It's going to depend on the inherent alkalinity of the salt mix you're using. This can vary from 8dkh to 12dkh. The higher the alk, the greater the chance of precipitation. Personally, I would gradually and continually adjust alk in the display via some sort of dosing method rather than adjusting via water change. That's a big alk spike.

 

[MnFish1]

Good Morning All

So, that plan went badly wrong. Yesterday I added a tsp of sodium carbonate to 5 gallons of made up salt water. No problem, so today I thought I would add 1 more tsp to the remaining 4 gallons. The heater and powerhead are now white as are the 4 gallons. Is this why I should have mixed the sodium carbonate into RO water? I added a tsp to a litre of RO which mostly dissolved clearly but did leave a small white stone at the bottom which I removed. So please, is the secret to gradually add the carbonate to some RO water? Years back I used to add a little bicarbonate to my make up water with no problem, so I was surprised when the carbonate precipitated.

Thanks for your help.

The precipitate is 'there'. However - it shouldn't hurt anything - except the equipment. You may consider soaking them in vinegar. If you turn off the powerhead - the white in the bucket will float to the bottom - If you want to be sure - just make up another 5 gallons in a new bucket.

One concern is why are you doing what you're doing? It's best to dose 'stuff' based on measurements - not just putting it in. So I would suggest that in the future - if you want to add alkalinity - measure the alkalinity in the tank - use a calculator such as on the BRS website. Mix the amount you want in RODI - and add it slowly to a HIGH FLOW area of the tank.

If you don't have a dosing pump this is the best way, iMHO.

 

[peterhos]

It's going to depend on the inherent alkalinity of the salt mix you're using. This can vary from 8dkh to 12dkh. The higher the alk, the greater the chance of precipitation. Personally, I would gradually and continually adjust alk in the display via some sort of dosing method rather than adjusting via water change. That's a big alk spike.

Thank you. Unless I am mistaken Tropic Marin Pro Reef mixes to dKH of 7 - 7.5. Which seems low to me. Or am I missing something here?

 

[Crustaceon]

Thank you. Unless I am mistaken Tropic Marin Pro Reef mixes to dKH of 7 - 7.5. Which seems low to me. Or am I missing something here?

I've heard that too. It's not necessarily a bad thing since most reefers will compensate for that with 2-part, kalk or a calcium reactor anyways.

 

[peterhos]

The precipitate is 'there'. However - it shouldn't hurt anything - except the equipment. You may consider soaking them in vinegar. If you turn off the powerhead - the white in the bucket will float to the bottom - If you want to be sure - just make up another 5 gallons in a new bucket.

One concern is why are you doing what you're doing? It's best to dose 'stuff' based on measurements - not just putting it in. So I would suggest that in the future - if you want to add alkalinity - measure the alkalinity in the tank - use a calculator such as on the BRS website. Mix the amount you want in RODI - and add it slowly to a HIGH FLOW area of the tank.

If you don't have a dosing pump this is the best way, iMHO.

Thank you. I went to the ‘reef calculator’ which said to add 1 tsp of sodium carbonate to raise dKH from 6.9 - 8.5 which is the dKH of my local store. I thought that by adding SC to 5 gallons of make up water which I add to the tank at a rate of 1 gallon or less per day that I could raise dKH gradually. I could easily put the SC into RO water and add to the sump or high flow areas of the tank. A stupid question … if one dissolves SC into RO water does it ‘stay dissolved’ when added to the tank? Or can one see precipitation later? Sorry to sound so unscientific … which I am! Thank you.

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you. I went to the ‘reef calculator’ which said to add 1 tsp of sodium carbonate to raise dKH from 6.9 - 8.5 which is the dKH of my local store. I thought that by adding SC to 5 gallons of make up water which I add to the tank at a rate of 1 gallon or less per day that I could raise dKH gradually. I could easily put the SC into RO water and add to the sump or high flow areas of the tank. A stupid question … if one dissolves SC into RO water does it ‘stay dissolved’ when added to the tank? Or can one see precipitation later? Sorry to sound so unscientific … which I am! Thank you.

You can see a temporary 'cloudiness' - which rapidly dissipates (disolved - ie not precipitates) in ares of high flow. PS the natural alkalinity of seawater is 7 or so. Sodium Carbonate will dissolve/not precipitate in RO/DI as compared to seawater due to the calcium in seawater. For example - you could make a much more concentrated Sodium carbonate solution that 1 TSP / 4 gallons in RODI

 

[peterhos]

Thanks again MnFish1. RO water it is then. Another silly question. Once I have dissolved the SC into RO water can I then use that liquid and add salt to make up my water change water, or will that once again cause precipitation? If I stick with RO water and SC could I add that to best effect to my ATO, to the sump or into the display tank? I am at home all day so am looking for an easy daily routine. Last question, is is pointless chasing the dKH of my LFS if as you say natural seawater has a dKH of 7?

 

[homer1475]

Randys recipe 2 uses just plain sodium bicarb:

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

Then use a calculator to figure out how much to add:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

 

[bushdoc]

I would recommend doing adjustments to alkalinity with dosing of sodium bicarbonate ( diluted in RODI water), not with sodium carbonate.

 

[Landloc]

I always put in 1TSP of Kalkwasser to 1 gallon of water. I shake that up and 24 hours later I skim off 90% of the clear water on top into my ATO water. My pH stays about 8.15-8.19.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks again MnFish1. RO water it is then. Another silly question. Once I have dissolved the SC into RO water can I then use that liquid and add salt to make up my water change water, or will that once again cause precipitation? If I stick with RO water and SC could I add that to best effect to my ATO, to the sump or into the display tank? I am at home all day so am looking for an easy daily routine. Last question, is is pointless chasing the dKH of my LFS if as you say natural seawater has a dKH of 7?

You have to merely add only enough alkalinity mixture appropriate for the amount of water you're going to change. PS - BRS has a sodium carbonate - with a recipe for making up concentrate in RODI - and then you have. standard solution (concentrate) - and you can use the calculator to add the proper amount. Hope this helps

 

[peterhos]

Thank you everybody. As ever there are different ideas to consider, but I now have a plan to follow ….

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that baking soda is the best way to boost a salt mix if alk is not high enough. The pH boost from sodium carbonate is what causes the calcium carbonate precipitation.

 

[peterhos]

I agree that baking soda is the best way to boost a salt mix if alk is not high enough. The pH boost from sodium carbonate is what causes the calcium carbonate precipitation.

Thank you again. Yes, I shall now concentrate on baking soda. Some people have mentioned a mix of SC and SB, in a ratio of 1:6 or so. Is there any advantage to that, apart from using up gradually the SC I bought!?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you again. Yes, I shall now concentrate on baking soda. Some people have mentioned a mix of SC and SB, in a ratio of 1:6 or so. Is there any advantage to that, apart from using up gradually the SC I bought!?

That's OK, but not better. Whether you add it is bicarbonate, carbonate or hydroxide, it all ends up at the same alk and pH after full aeration, assuming it doesn't precipitate out as calcium carbonate.

 

[peterhos]

That's OK, but not better. Whether you add it is bicarbonate, carbonate or hydroxide, it all ends up at the same alk and pH after full aeration, assuming it doesn't precipitate out as calcium carbonate.

Thank you Randy … if only I had paid attention at school in science classes. I have the SB on order now so will utilise SB and the SC over the next few months. As long as I now avoid the precipitation which did surprise me. Thanks again.

 

[Rmckoy]

Thanks again MnFish1. RO water it is then. Another silly question. Once I have dissolved the SC into RO water can I then use that liquid and add salt to make up my water change water, or will that once again cause precipitation? If I stick with RO water and SC could I add that to best effect to my ATO, to the sump or into the display tank? I am at home all day so am looking for an easy daily routine. Last question, is is pointless chasing the dKH of my LFS if as you say natural seawater has a dKH of 7?

I would keep dosing and water change water separate .
If you want a solution to increase calcium and alkalinity and if you’re mixing water fke water changes , mix rodi with enough salt to achieve proper salinity with a calibrated device .
Why complicate things

 

[peterhos]

I would keep dosing and water change water separate .
If you want a solution to increase calcium and alkalinity and if you’re mixing water fke water changes , mix rodi with enough salt to achieve proper salinity with a calibrated device .
Why complicate things

Yes thank you. My water change water is good … matches for temperature and salinity. The Tropic Marin mixes to about 7 - 7.5 dKH so I am now at the stage where I have to see what dKH I am happy with … and then dose accordingly.

 

[Rmckoy]

Yes thank you. My water change water is good … matches for temperature and salinity. The Tropic Marin mixes to about 7 - 7.5 dKH so I am now at the stage where I have to see what dKH I am happy with … and then dose accordingly.

Or …. Change salts to match your desired parameters .
Generally . We buy salt to match what we are looking for . But we all have bought salt on sale and changed its parameters to temporarily suit our needs .