Crab Molting Issues

[altairpilot]

Hello, i have an unusual pet which is a Red Rock Crab (Cancer productus) and just aquatic crabs in general are very hard to find good information about other than cooking.

I've had him for about 9 months now. I keep the water temperature and salinity matched to his natural home (Puget Sound) and have him connected to a Fluval canister filter. I also use water conditioner, have a cuttle bone for calcium, and alternate between feeding him algae pellets, fish meat, and wild prawns from the Puget Sound.

For the last half year, he has lost a lot of his red color, turned kind of a dull purple, extremities turned white, eyes foggy, and some specific spots of minor shell degradation. He has also become much more docile; there was one point over the winter that he didn't move for two months, but later came back to slightly higher activity.

My worry for a long time now is that he is experiencing a failed molt. I'm going to be testing for iodide but am wondering what other things may be contributing to this issue. I did previously have a small Graceful Crab who molted seemlessly and without me even knowing It was going to happen. I will say the difference in my Red Rock's activity did change when he was moved from his 40-gal with organic matter from the Sound into a sterile 10-gal (we had a major accident). He will be returning to a 40-gal soon after spending 8 months in the 10-gal.

Any advice or guesses are much appreciated! Looking for any other water tests to perform.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Welcome to Reef2Reef and sorry for your trouble!

How wide is the crab's carapace (not including the legs)?


Molting issues can be caused by a number of things, but basically it boils down to either stress, diet, or inadequate water quality. Some crustaceans also have issues with lighting sometimes, so that may be something to look into as well.

Anyway, I'll help get you started with checking for potential causes of any issues, but - just to put this out there - moving a presumably fairly large crab from an established (and presumably cycled) aquarium to a small, new aquarium (you didn't mention if it's cycled or not) is a recipe for high stress, and probably poor water quality as well if the crab is large enough.


So to start with the water quality:

I also use water conditioner,

What water conditioner do you use and what do you use it for specifically?

What water are you using (tap water, sea water, RO/DI, etc.)?


With crustaceans, some parameters you may want to check include:

-Calcium
-pH
-Nitrate
-Phosphate
-Alkalinity would probably be good to test as well.

With this specific situation, I also would suggest testing:

-Ammonia
-Copper

If you have reason to believe your water may have too high levels of contaminants or something like magnesium (this one is unlikely), then you may want to check for those too.


About your 10 gallon tank:

-Was the tank cycled?
-How many gallons is the canister filter recommended for?
-Do you have any other filtration (other filters, a refugium/cryptic refugium, algae scrubber, etc.) on the tank?
-Do you have any rock in the tank, or just sand?
-Does the tank have a sump?
-Can we get a picture of the full tank?
-What lighting does the tank get (sunlight, light fixtures, etc.)?


For the diet:

-How much are you feeding the crab each feeding?
-How often are you feeding the crab?
-What specific pellets, fish, and prawns are you feeding? How much of each are you feeding and how often?

 

[altairpilot]

Welcome to Reef2Reef and sorry for your trouble!

How wide is the crab's carapace (not including the legs)?


Molting issues can be caused by a number of things, but basically it boils down to either stress, diet, or inadequate water quality. Some crustaceans also have issues with lighting sometimes, so that may be something to look into as well.

Anyway, I'll help get you started with checking for potential causes of any issues, but - just to put this out there - moving a presumably fairly large crab from an established (and presumably cycled) aquarium to a small, new aquarium (you didn't mention if it's cycled or not) is a recipe for high stress, and probably poor water quality as well if the crab is large enough.


So to start with the water quality:

What water conditioner do you use and what do you use it for specifically?

What water are you using (tap water, sea water, RO/DI, etc.)?


With crustaceans, some parameters you may want to check include:

-Calcium
-pH
-Nitrate
-Phosphate
-Alkalinity would probably be good to test as well.

With this specific situation, I also would suggest testing:

-Ammonia
-Copper

If you have reason to believe your water may have too high levels of contaminants or something like magnesium (this one is unlikely), then you may want to check for those too.


About your 10 gallon tank:

-Was the tank cycled?
-How many gallons is the canister filter recommended for?
-Do you have any other filtration (other filters, a refugium/cryptic refugium, algae scrubber, etc.) on the tank?
-Do you have any rock in the tank, or just sand?
-Does the tank have a sump?
-Can we get a picture of the full tank?
-What lighting does the tank get (sunlight, light fixtures, etc.)?


For the diet:

-How much are you feeding the crab each feeding?
-How often are you feeding the crab?
-What specific pellets, fish, and prawns are you feeding? How much of each are you feeding and how often?

Thanks so much for the reply! I wasn't expecting it to be so in-depth. I haven't been able to reply because i've been moving for the last several days (including moving the crab again) and it has been overwhelming. He was so stressed from the move that he plucked one of his claws off, which is something i've been kind of anticipating to happen. I'm definitely on high-alert with him now.

Sebastian is 5" in carapace width. You mentioned lighting and i will admit that his lighting has been fairly irregular. Lately i will have the LED lights on at night and then have the light off and the aquarium covered so it's moderately dark during the day, but not completely.

I should mention that during the move 8 months ago, he was inside the 40 gallon when we had an accident, resulting in the tank slamming to the concrete and shattering (and cutting my lateral artery in the process, sending me to the hospital). Sebastian was rescued by an EMT who brought him up to my room and put him in a room-temp bucket of salt water (removed from his tank earlier for moving). He would spend about 3 weeks in that Home Depot bucket (with the chiller and a small filter), he actually managed to escape the bucket and i found him on my carpet once. The reason for this situation is my left hand was completely unusable. He then went to the 10-gallon for 7 months and remains there today (only because nobody will help me with moving in my new 40-gallon lol). Then i moved him again a couple days ago where he spent about 1.5 hours in a Home Depot bucket again with no aeration and the water allowed to warm to 10°F above normal for him before i had his tank setup (again, nobody helped me set up his new tank in advance so i had to just move his current tank and set it up quickly). This is when he dropped his claw. So he has been put under a lot of stress just from all this drama. I'll get back with the other answers later (i'm on a short work break).

 

[altairpilot]

Welcome to Reef2Reef and sorry for your trouble!

How wide is the crab's carapace (not including the legs)?


Molting issues can be caused by a number of things, but basically it boils down to either stress, diet, or inadequate water quality. Some crustaceans also have issues with lighting sometimes, so that may be something to look into as well.

Anyway, I'll help get you started with checking for potential causes of any issues, but - just to put this out there - moving a presumably fairly large crab from an established (and presumably cycled) aquarium to a small, new aquarium (you didn't mention if it's cycled or not) is a recipe for high stress, and probably poor water quality as well if the crab is large enough.


So to start with the water quality:

What water conditioner do you use and what do you use it for specifically?

What water are you using (tap water, sea water, RO/DI, etc.)?


With crustaceans, some parameters you may want to check include:

-Calcium
-pH
-Nitrate
-Phosphate
-Alkalinity would probably be good to test as well.

With this specific situation, I also would suggest testing:

-Ammonia
-Copper

If you have reason to believe your water may have too high levels of contaminants or something like magnesium (this one is unlikely), then you may want to check for those too.


About your 10 gallon tank:

-Was the tank cycled?
-How many gallons is the canister filter recommended for?
-Do you have any other filtration (other filters, a refugium/cryptic refugium, algae scrubber, etc.) on the tank?
-Do you have any rock in the tank, or just sand?
-Does the tank have a sump?
-Can we get a picture of the full tank?
-What lighting does the tank get (sunlight, light fixtures, etc.)?


For the diet:

-How much are you feeding the crab each feeding?
-How often are you feeding the crab?
-What specific pellets, fish, and prawns are you feeding? How much of each are you feeding and how often?

To continue, he was originally on a hang-over-the-edge style filter in the 40 gal, then on a little internal 10-gal filter. About two months ago, i upgraded him to a Fluval 207 with 45 gal capacity (while he's in the 10-gal). I added an inline UV filter that was only used until no longer needed.

Mostly i have been feeding him Tetra PlecoWafers, about once per day, and giving him a piece of fish or shrimp once a week or so. I think it is erring on the low end of feeding frequency but it's because the 10-gal gets dirty very fast and he is not always hungry, resulting in wafers sitting around making a mess. He used to get extremely aggressive when he smelled meat, now he is kind of lethargic but still interested. I fed him tilapia and spotted prawns (from the Puget Sound). Back in the day, he actually managed to kill and eat a live one that i had coexisting with him.

My previous crab (Graceful Crab) which molted just fine had a diet of mostly Crab Cuisine, which are too small for this bigger crab.

I use Aqueon water conditioner in tap water. Not sure of any specifics beyond that, i'm pretty novice.

If i could critique my own habits, water changes would be an area i need to improve. The ammonia levels are probably fairly high, especially while i was injured (basically no cleaning of the water at all for two months).

There is nothing but sand from Petco in the current tank (for 8 months). In his previous 40-gal home, he had rocks from the ocean with various other types of critters (sea anemone, eel grass, clams, etc) which he lived with in the Sound.

I'm attaching photos of his temporary, 10-gal tank.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

He was so stressed from the move that he plucked one of his claws off, which is something i've been kind of anticipating to happen. I'm definitely on high-alert with him now.

Yeah, that's definitely not a good sign.

You mentioned lighting and i will admit that his lighting has been fairly irregular. Lately i will have the LED lights on at night and then have the light off and the aquarium covered so it's moderately dark during the day, but not completely.

That might be adding to the stress.

I should mention that during the move 8 months ago, he was inside the 40 gallon when we had an accident, resulting in the tank slamming to the concrete and shattering (and cutting my lateral artery in the process, sending me to the hospital). Sebastian was rescued by an EMT who brought him up to my room and put him in a room-temp bucket of salt water (removed from his tank earlier for moving). He would spend about 3 weeks in that Home Depot bucket (with the chiller and a small filter), he actually managed to escape the bucket and i found him on my carpet once. The reason for this situation is my left hand was completely unusable. He then went to the 10-gallon for 7 months and remains there today (only because nobody will help me with moving in my new 40-gallon lol). Then i moved him again a couple days ago where he spent about 1.5 hours in a Home Depot bucket again with no aeration and the water allowed to warm to 10°F above normal for him before i had his tank setup (again, nobody helped me set up his new tank in advance so i had to just move his current tank and set it up quickly). This is when he dropped his claw. So he has been put under a lot of stress just from all this drama.

Wow - glad you're alright; that would definitely be highly stressful for the crab.

Sebastian is 5" in carapace width.

Yeah, a 10 gallon is definitely too small for a crab that large.

If i could critique my own habits, water changes would be an area i need to improve. The ammonia levels are probably fairly high, especially while i was injured (basically no cleaning of the water at all for two months).

Yeah, with a 5" crab in a 10 gallon tank, I'd definitely get some ammonia tests and see how it's doing ammonia-wise; too high of ammonia can kill critters (slowly if only somewhat too high, and quickly if much too high).

I use Aqueon water conditioner in tap water. Not sure of any specifics beyond that, i'm pretty novice.

So, the water conditioner is designed to remove chlorine/chloramines from the water - that's good, but it doesn't prevent other issues that tap water can potentially have (such as excess metals like copper, which are toxic to inverts).

Seattle's water quality report is pretty lackluster compared to some I've seen, but it does list it's copper levels, so we have a decent example to work with here: 90% of houses had copper levels at or below 0.12 ppm.

Seems like a small amount, right? However, when you look at the copper level tolerances of various inverts (including, reportedly, corals), you find:

0.02 ppm can kill some inverts (reportedly including corals) - in fact, 0.002 ppm (A.K.A. 2 ppb) is enough to kill certain inverts.

Unfortunately, Seattle doesn't list the minimum levels of copper found, but it still means there's a chance that your crab could be getting slowly poisoned by the tap water - I'm not saying that's the case here (particularly with your previous crab having done fine, though different species have different tolerance levels - sometimes drastically different), but it's a possibility: this is why I personally always recommend RO/DI water.


Anyway, moving on to address a couple of other points that may help:

There is nothing but sand from Petco in the current tank (for 8 months). In his previous 40-gal home, he had rocks from the ocean with various other types of critters (sea anemone, eel grass, clams, etc) which he lived with in the Sound.

I would definitely add something to the tank to give the crab a place to hide, even if it's just a plastic overhang to hide under or a large PVC tube it can hide in.

In addition to decreasing stress by giving the crab a way to seek shelter, this also provides more surface area for more nitrifying bacteria, which could help with any excess ammonia levels.

And, finally:

Mostly i have been feeding him Tetra PlecoWafers, about once per day, and giving him a piece of fish or shrimp once a week or so. I think it is erring on the low end of feeding frequency but it's because the 10-gal gets dirty very fast and he is not always hungry, resulting in wafers sitting around making a mess. He used to get extremely aggressive when he smelled meat, now he is kind of lethargic but still interested. I fed him tilapia and spotted prawns (from the Puget Sound). Back in the day, he actually managed to kill and eat a live one that i had coexisting with him.

My previous crab (Graceful Crab) which molted just fine had a diet of mostly Crab Cuisine, which are too small for this bigger crab.

I suspect the Tetra Pleco Wafers just aren't cutting it as a diet staple, especially if only supplemented once a week with meaty foods; it's low in protein, low in fat, likely high in carbs, and essentially a vegan/vegetarian diet for an omnivorous (primarily carnivorous) crab.

Similarly, tilapia is also pretty low in protein and fat.

For a staple diet, I'd suggest something like Mytilus sp. mussels as the main feed, supplemented probably every daily or every other day with a smaller portion of NLS Marine Fish Pellets. I'd also suggest supplementing two or three times a week with a good quality fish (such as salmon), shrimp or other crustaceans (like mysis), and something like fresh urchins or snails if possible.

That said, the mussels would be by far the most important part, and the others would honestly just be nice additions to try and add variety with to ensure a well-balanced nutrition and optimal long-term health for the crab.

As an alternative to the NLS pellets, you can use macroalgae like Nori, Ulva, Halymenia, etc. (possibly even some kind of kelp) - the crab might eat it by itself, or you could try things like wrapping it around the meaty food, making a gelatin feed with it, etc.

 

[altairpilot]

Yeah, that's definitely not a good sign.

That might be adding to the stress.

Wow - glad you're alright; that would definitely be highly stressful for the crab.

Yeah, a 10 gallon is definitely too small for a crab that large.

Yeah, with a 5" crab in a 10 gallon tank, I'd definitely get some ammonia tests and see how it's doing ammonia-wise; too high of ammonia can kill critters (slowly if only somewhat too high, and quickly if much too high).

So, the water conditioner is designed to remove chlorine/chloramines from the water - that's good, but it doesn't prevent other issues that tap water can potentially have (such as excess metals like copper, which are toxic to inverts).

Seattle's water quality report is pretty lackluster compared to some I've seen, but it does list it's copper levels, so we have a decent example to work with here: 90% of houses had copper levels at or below 0.12 ppm.

Seems like a small amount, right? However, when you look at the copper level tolerances of various inverts (including, reportedly, corals), you find:

Unfortunately, Seattle doesn't list the minimum levels of copper found, but it still means there's a chance that your crab could be getting slowly poisoned by the tap water - I'm not saying that's the case here (particularly with your previous crab having done fine, though different species have different tolerance levels - sometimes drastically different), but it's a possibility: this is why I personally always recommend RO/DI water.


Anyway, moving on to address a couple of other points that may help:

I would definitely add something to the tank to give the crab a place to hide, even if it's just a plastic overhang to hide under or a large PVC tube it can hide in.

In addition to decreasing stress by giving the crab a way to seek shelter, this also provides more surface area for more nitrifying bacteria, which could help with any excess ammonia levels.

And, finally:

I suspect the Tetra Pleco Wafers just aren't cutting it as a diet staple, especially if only supplemented once a week with meaty foods; it's low in protein, low in fat, likely high in carbs, and essentially a vegan/vegetarian diet for an omnivorous (primarily carnivorous) crab.

Similarly, tilapia is also pretty low in protein and fat.

For a staple diet, I'd suggest something like Mytilus sp. mussels as the main feed, supplemented probably every daily or every other day with a smaller portion of NLS Marine Fish Pellets. I'd also suggest supplementing two or three times a week with a good quality fish (such as salmon), shrimp or other crustaceans (like mysis), and something like fresh urchins or snails if possible.

That said, the mussels would be by far the most important part, and the others would honestly just be nice additions to try and add variety with to ensure a well-balanced nutrition and optimal long-term health for the crab.

As an alternative to the NLS pellets, you can use macroalgae like Nori, Ulva, Halymenia, etc. (possibly even some kind of kelp) - the crab might eat it by itself, or you could try things like wrapping it around the meaty food, making a gelatin feed with it, etc.

Again, i'm amazed at what a wealth of knowledge you are. I just did an emergency 50% water change using distilled water (in the interest of time, but i will look into an RODI system). I covered the aquarium to make it very dark.

I also got an assorted mix of seafood at the store (with mussels and shrimp) as emergency food. He ate one large muscle and two small claims and is the most animated i've seen him in a while.

Later on when i get a break, i'll go to the beach and collect some wild muscles and have them in a small 5-gal holding tank until it's time to feed.

I'll be looking into the RODI systems some more but off the top of your head, is there a particular budget-friendly system that you would recommend? I would say my budget will allow for up to $150 approximately.

Also thank you for doing such a thorough investigation of the Seattle water supply

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I'll be looking into the RODI systems some more but off the top of your head, is there a particular budget-friendly system that you would recommend? I would say my budget will allow for up to $150 approximately.

The cheapest I know which I've heard good things about is the Aquatic Life RO Buddy - it's a four stage filter with a mixed bed DI; 50 gallons per day; $70.

There are other options out there for a higher budget with more stages (heavier duty filtration), but I don't remember them off the top of my head.

Also thank you for doing such a thorough investigation of the Seattle water supply

Once you learn how to read the water quality reports, it becomes pretty easy.

 

[altairpilot]

The cheapest I know which I've heard good things about is the Aquatic Life RO Buddy - it's a four stage filter with a mixed bed DI; 50 gallons per day; $70.

There are other options out there for a higher budget with more stages (heavier duty filtration), but I don't remember them off the top of my head.

Once you learn how to read the water quality reports, it becomes pretty easy.

I just realized i said "muscles" instead of "mussels" spending too much time in the gym.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I just realized i said "muscles" instead of "mussels" spending too much time in the gym.

Haha, don't worry about it - typos happen all the time.