270 Gallon "Fish Pairs Themed" Upgrade

[MrsBugmaster]

Ugh I only have experience with the DOS and trident as of now I'm sorry

Thanks anyway.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

Got it working. Just had to sign out and then sign back in.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

I can tell already there is going to be a learning curve with this external bean animal overflow box. Having a hard time getting it dialed in. I get the overflow box where it’s quiet and then the pump chamber runs too low and running dry. I need to get all the rock and sand in first so that water level is stable then mess with it.

 

[danieyella]

I can tell already there is going to be a learning curve with this external bean animal overflow box. Having a hard time getting it dialed in. I get the overflow box where it’s quiet and then the pump chamber runs too low and running dry. I need to get all the rock and sand in first so that water level is stable then mess with it.

That's part of the reason I'm nervous about doing a custom. I'd want to go that route but I'm **** with that kind of stuff.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

That's part of the reason I'm nervous about doing a custom. I'd want to go that route but I'm **** with that kind of stuff.

And I think every brand has a different overflow box so what works for one may not work on others.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

For the return inside the tank I found one piece of loc line in my fish closet so order just the threaded end for it and 1 whole new one for the other side. The old piece would not go on the new threaded piece so ordered the tool to attach them together…. well turns out the old piece is not “loc line” but “snap loc”. Didn’t even know this brand existed! They do not fit together so have to order more official loc line parts. This is taking longer than I expected to get the fish back in the tank.

 

[fishguy242]

Always something...
I have never got the tool to work putting together,taking apart no problem.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

These things worked great for stopping the leaks.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

Why can’t anything go the F’ing way it’s supposed to! Had return pump off while I was adding some rock. Then noticed my rodi was siphoning water out of ato container and over flowed my sump. Glad I put the pond liner in the bottom of the sump. So do you think my Tunze ato pump is going bad and allowing the water to siphon out or some other issue with maybe how the ato line is run??

 

[MrsBugmaster]

Need a little advice please. No matter what I do I can not get it dialed in. If return pump chamber is at right level then the overflow box is too low and loud. If I get the level in the overflow box so it is quiet then the the return pump runs dry. The overflow box is plumbed like this: main drain (full siphon)has no pipe in it, secondary drain has a pipe in it that is just above level where water enters overflow box and emergency drain is a little higher than secondary drain. I’m beginning to think maybe I need a pipe in the main drain also to help adjust the water level in the overflow box?? My friend that plumbed it said I shouldn’t have a pipe in the main drain.

Main and secondary

secondary and emergency drain

 

[MrsBugmaster]

This example shows a pipe in the main drain. Should I have it like this?

 

[fishguy242]

@Lost in the Sauce ?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

A drain in the full siphon is not needed. I run pipes and candy canes on both of my systems, but that's personal preference. It should work either way. If you keep the pipe in the secondary, It should probably be made shorter because it looks like it's going to be pretty close to the water surface which will cause it to pull air in with it.

Second note, How far into the water are your overflow pipe sticking? 2 in is what I would shoot for. Less can work, more will likely keep the system from purging correctly.


If when your overflow box is at the correct level, It runs your return chamber dry, That means you don't have enough water in the system and need to add more. This is common.

I have always tuned BA overflows by splitting it up into separate systems. You have a Full siphon side, and a Herbie drain side. Ideally, you start with the full siphon first. To draw a true full siphon, it has to be allowed to purge all air from the line, with can take a new minutes. If there Is turbulent water in your overflow box or feeding new bubbles into the pipe, That's no good.

If you are having trouble pulling down the open channel into a full siphon, start closing your secondary line valve to restrict the flow. You need both the return chamber and overflow box, at about the right level while tuning. More on that below.

Once you slowly close the valve enough, you'll see your water level in the overflow box start to rise. This is when you watch the return pump section. Top off if needed. From here, you are making Tiny changes to the gate. Not even a quarter turn.

So now you should have a lot of water running through the primary open channel, and some amount of water running through the secondary. After 5 or more minutes, Look at the outcoming water in the sump from your primary drain. If there are zero bubbles coming out, you are ready to work on the secondary. Don't start messing with the secondary until there is absolutely no air bubbles coming out of your primary. Whatever you do will not stick.

Once the full siphon is established, Now tune your secondary line with the gate valve until your water level is below the emergency line and holding there. Check and recheck every few minutes, Ensuring Both the primary and secondary channel have no air coming out into the sump.

Any changes now made under siphon should hold, until you turn the system off, and back on. Every time it boots up, it'll have to purge all of the air out of the system again, which can take a few minutes.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

A drain in the full siphon is not needed. I run pipes and candy canes on both of my systems, but that's personal preference. It should work either way. If you keep the pipe in the secondary, It should probably be made shorter because it looks like it's going to be pretty close to the water surface which will cause it to pull air in with it.

Second note, How far into the water are your overflow pipe sticking? 2 in is what I would shoot for. Less can work, more will likely keep the system from purging correctly.


If when your overflow box is at the correct level, It runs your return chamber dry, That means you don't have enough water in the system and need to add more. This is common.

I have always tuned BA overflows by splitting it up into separate systems. You have a Full siphon side, and a Herbie drain side. Ideally, you start with the full siphon first. To draw a true full siphon, it has to be allowed to purge all air from the line, with can take a new minutes. If there Is turbulent water in your overflow box or feeding new bubbles into the pipe, That's no good.

If you are having trouble pulling down the open channel into a full siphon, start closing your secondary line valve to restrict the flow. You need both the return chamber and overflow box, at about the right level while tuning. More on that below.

Once you slowly close the valve enough, you'll see your water level in the overflow box start to rise. This is when you watch the return pump section. Top off if needed. From here, you are making Tiny changes to the gate. Not even a quarter turn.

So now you should have a lot of water running through the primary open channel, and some amount of water running through the secondary. After 5 or more minutes, Look at the outcoming water in the sump from your primary drain. If there are zero bubbles coming out, you are ready to work on the secondary. Don't start messing with the secondary until there is absolutely no air bubbles coming out of your primary. Whatever you do will not stick.

Once the full siphon is established, Now tune your secondary line with the gate valve until your water level is below the emergency line and holding there. Check and recheck every few minutes, Ensuring Both the primary and secondary channel have no air coming out into the sump.

Any changes now made under siphon should hold, until you turn the system off, and back on. Every time it boots up, it'll have to purge all of the air out of the system again, which can take a few minutes.

There isn’t a gate valve on the secondary, only the main and it is at the sump. So should I put one on the secondary too?

Can’t put any more water in, it is already touching the bottom of the cross supports

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

There isn’t a gate valve on the secondary, only the main and it is at the sump. So should I put one on the secondary too?

Can’t put any more water in, it is already touching the bottom of the cross supports

What size sump are you running under the 270? If the sump is appropriately sized , that may mean you are pushing too much through the pump .

The main drain should not have a valve at all if you are running appropriate flow through appropriate sized tube. It is a full siphon or open channel.

The secondary has to have a gate/valve in order to tune the whole system.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

What size sump are you running under the 270? If the sump is appropriately sized , that may mean you are pushing too much through the pump .

The main drain should not have a valve at all if you are running appropriate flow through appropriate sized tube. It is a full siphon or open channel.

The secondary has to have a gate/valve in order to tune the whole system.

It’s this sump
L x W x H
48 x 15 x 16 in
Says it’s rated for up 350 gallons

Not sure on the “full siphon or open channel. A guy in my local fish club plumbed it for me. He said the secondary drain should just have a trickle of water going down it and none going in the emergency unless of course it’s an emergency to prevent overflowing.

The gate valve on the main drain. Second on is secondary drain and third is the emergency drain

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

That sump should be plenty of sump, for that size tank and flow back.

The picture is helping my understanding.

Since he/she Put the valve on the main drain, It actually looks like it's been constructed as a Herbie Plus. This makes much more sense now.

A Herbie as created has a very slight trickle going over the emergency overflow which allows it to regulate the uptown surges of a pump. Your emergency overflow is still very much wide open.

You have three pipes and you are trying to flow all of your flow through one pipe. Two should be in use.

Any idea what gph you are running through the pump?

I think you are pumping way more than your single 1" pipe can flow, which is starving the sump essentially.

I personally would not run it in that configuration. If you remove the pipe In the overflow box "secondary" and install it on your "full siphon" you have just changed which one is the full and will now have the gate, on your secondary.

Once there, you can go back up to the instructions above, and give it a try. This set up will allow you to use Both pipes as it was designed to be used.

One is a full unobstructed siphon, one with a gate you can throttle down to tune the water level in the overflow with, and an emergency fully open line that can handle the flow if Either of the others get obstructed.

For reference, my 180g had two fully open, 1" full siphon overflow lines and an e drain just to get the turnover I wanted.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

The tank is slightly off level. The front being the lower side. So it is just the front of the tank that is where I see the water touching the brace , not the whole brace is being touched by water.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

The tank is slightly off level. The front being the lower side. So it is just the front of the tank that is where I see the water touching the brace , not the whole brace is being touched by water.

I thought you meant the water was touching the brace in the sump.

Is it only that high when you are running it?

I believe You are pushing way too much water in, for the One pipe to take out which is raising the water level.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

Any idea what gph you are running through the pump?

Don’t know. It is a Royal Exclusive Red Dragon 80 watt pump. It goes from 0 to 80. I have it set a 46 watts.

This is what Doug(guy who plumped it wrote back when I asked him for some clarification.

1. Gate value on return at back of the tank.
   fully all the time unless more flow is needed through the UV.

2.Gate value under stand going into the uv. Purpose:Open all the way unless less flow is needed through the UV

3. Gate valve from main drain at the sump
Purpose:
Controls the amount of water in the overflow box

4.Ball valve at back on other return
Purpose: Ball valve only needed when servicing the flow sensor on uv. Remaining open all other times.

I will switch the secondary like you suggested.