1 year ICP results ALL FOR REEF

[rishma]

All for reef doesn’t have enough to replace all the trace. per my ICP the only thing in isol8 mt that’s high is zinc but I’ll let it ride we’ll see in a month how much it goes up.

Your trace honestly looked good to me. What are you focused on improving with Isol8?

 

[805reeftank]

Your trace honestly look good. What are you focused on improving with Isol8?

Isol8 mt is supposed to be the daily’s that get consumed the quickest and it’s all in 1. I don’t want to do moonshiners or manually dose. If you look at the ICP some of these aren’t detectable and some can still be optimized so I figure it’s 18bucks lets see what happens. As far as what I’m chasing? It’s color. my colors are ok I just want to see what I can get them too. And honestly that thing that might have the biggest effect is correcting the salinity. But I already started the MT before I got my results back so I won’t be able to pin point what does it of they do improve. I guess I could stop MT if things look better and rule it out that way. We’ll see.

• Iodide
• Molybdenum
• Nickel
• Zinc
• Manganese
• Copper
• Selenium
• Vanadium
• Iron
• Cobalt

 

[rishma]

Isol8 mt is supposed to be the daily’s that get consumed the quickest and it’s all in 1. If you look at the ICP some of these aren’t detectable and some can still be optimized so I figure it’s 18bucks lets see what happens.

• Iodide
• Molybdenum
• Nickel
• Zinc
• Manganese
• Copper
• Selenium
• Vanadium
• Iron
• Cobalt

Cool. Let us know how it goes. I am interested in your observations. My only trace is from AFR. I tend to be low on Mn and was thinking about dosing it.

I think some of those not detectable elements have levels in NSW that ICP-OES would read as not detectable. I am not sure what the ideal value ATI shows is based on. I’m not knocking it, it could be good.

I was thinking sometime this year I’d do an ICP-MS. I like the Isol8 approach and would consider it.

 

[805reeftank]

Cool. Let us know how it goes. I am interested in your observations. My only trace is from AFR. I tend to be low on Mn and was thinking about dosing it.

I think some of those not detectable elements have levels in NSW that ICP-OES would read as not detectable. I am not sure what the ideal value ATI shows is based on. I’m not knocking it, it could be good.

I was thinking sometime this year I’d do an ICP-MS. I like the Isol8 approach and would consider it.

As long as it’s not elevated to a concerning level or it’s just detectable I’m good with it. One of the main reasons I decided to try it is it can be diluted in RO water and dosed with a single pump. All the elements in MT are widely believed to be beneficial so why not.

 

[allenk4]

Isol8 mt is supposed to be the daily’s that get consumed the quickest and it’s all in 1. I don’t want to do moonshiners or manually dose. If you look at the ICP some of these aren’t detectable and some can still be optimized so I figure it’s 18bucks lets see what happens. As far as what I’m chasing? It’s color. my colors are ok I just want to see what I can get them too. And honestly that thing that might have the biggest effect is correcting the salinity. But I already started the MT before I got my results back so I won’t be able to pin point what does it of they do improve. I guess I could stop MT if things look better and rule it out that way. We’ll see.

• Iodide
• Molybdenum
• Nickel
• Zinc
• Manganese
• Copper
• Selenium
• Vanadium
• Iron
• Cobalt

From what I have read, a standard ICP Test may not even be actually testing for some of these trace elements like Iron, but are extrapolating data for other elements found in the sample to come up with the Fe number.

This is from an article on Reef Builders:

“The majority of ICP tests are OES (Optical Emission spectroscopy), at ICP Analysis we use MS (Mass spectrometry.) MS measures the mass of atoms whereas OES measures the wavelengths of the atoms and ions.MS and OES are different machines with different testing methods. MS can go down into the parts per trillion (ppt). OES can go to parts per billion (ppb).”

Regarding your issue with excess Zinc: A video I watched recently discussed that if there is no mechanism for removal of a trace element it can accumulate from continual addition of RODI to replace evaporation. If there is more Zinc entering the system than the fish and corals are using, it will accumulate. Unfortunately, if the issue is your RODI…a 50% water change wouldn’t remove 50% of the Zinc.

Interesting situation.

 

[rishma]

As long as it’s not elevated to a concerning level or it’s just detectable I’m good with it. One of the main reasons I decided to try it is it can be diluted in RO water and dosed with a single pump. All the elements in MT are widely believed to be beneficial so why not.

I follow the logic. And I like to tinker.

 

[Pod_01]

All for reef doesn’t have enough to replace all the trace. per my ICP the only thing in isol8 mt that’s high is zinc but I’ll let it ride we’ll see in a month how much it goes up.

I look at it bit different, AFR provides all trace elements that are consumed. So if ICP shows not detected to me that is a good indicator.

For example Liebig’s law of minimum states that growth is dictated not by total recourse available, but by the scarcest resource.

Liebig's law of the minimum - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Hope the link works.

Let us know how the reef responds.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Zinc is used as a stabilizer in PVC and maybe other plastics. That may be the source in the RO/DI, but it may also be getting directly into the tank if similar plastics are used there.

In any case, I likely would not worry about it in the current scenario.

Ca/Zn Stabilizer,Calcium Zinc Stabilizer,Non-Toxic Stabilizer Manufacturers and Suppliers in China

China Ca/Zn Stabilizer,Calcium Zinc Stabilizer manufacturers, welcome Non-Toxic Stabilizer,Non Toxic Ca Zn Stabilizer purchasers from worldwide to visit our site.

www.novistachem.com

 

[805reeftank]

From what I have read, a standard ICP Test may not even be actually testing for some of these trace elements like Iron, but are extrapolating data for other elements found in the sample to come up with the Fe number.

This is from an article on Reef Builders:

“The majority of ICP tests are OES (Optical Emission spectroscopy), at ICP Analysis we use MS (Mass spectrometry.) MS measures the mass of atoms whereas OES measures the wavelengths of the atoms and ions.MS and OES are different machines with different testing methods. MS can go down into the parts per trillion (ppt). OES can go to parts per billion (ppb).”

Regarding your issue with excess Zinc: A video I watched recently discussed that if there is no mechanism for removal of a trace element it can accumulate from continual addition of RODI to replace evaporation. If there is more Zinc entering the system than the fish and corals are using, it will accumulate. Unfortunately, if the issue is your RODI…a 50% water change wouldn’t remove 50% of the Zinc.

Interesting situation.

According to their testing the elements listed are the ones they test for. We’ll see if they move on the next test with the isol8 mt dosing. As for the zinc I’ll keep an eye on it see how much it jumps in the next test. After all this was a years worth of accumulation.

 

[805reeftank]

I look at it bit different, AFR provides all trace elements that are consumed. So if ICP shows not detected to me that is a good indicator.

For example Liebig’s law of minimum states that growth is dictated not by total recourse available, but by the scarcest resource.

Liebig's law of the minimum - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Hope the link works.

Let us know how the reef responds.

I look at it bit different, AFR provides all trace elements that are consumed. So if ICP shows not detected to me that is a good indicator.

For example Liebig’s law of minimum states that growth is dictated not by total recourse available, but by the scarcest resource.

Liebig's law of the minimum - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Hope the link works.

Let us know how the reef responds.

The way I look at it we never went to bottom out phosphate and nitrate so why not try and get trace readings. Plus isol8 is an all in one it’s an easy way to see if the traces go up or not.

 

[805reeftank]

Zinc is used as a stabilizer in PVC and maybe other plastics. That may be the source in the RO/DI, but it may also be getting directly into the tank if similar plastics are used there.

In any case, I likely would not worry about it in the current scenario.

Ca/Zn Stabilizer,Calcium Zinc Stabilizer,Non-Toxic Stabilizer Manufacturers and Suppliers in China

China Ca/Zn Stabilizer,Calcium Zinc Stabilizer manufacturers, welcome Non-Toxic Stabilizer,Non Toxic Ca Zn Stabilizer purchasers from worldwide to visit our site.

www.novistachem.com

The zinc is high in RODI so it’s mainly coming from my water or maybe the plastic jugs I hold the water in. I did pull the sample those jugs and the water will usually sit in there 4-7 days before use. Next test I’ll pull directly from the unit see if that changes the results. Then i can rule the jugs the problem.

As for the current levels I’m not going to do anything about them unless the next test shows a heavy increase. I have read maybe cuprisorb or metasorb might bind them.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The way I look at it we never went to bottom out phosphate and nitrate so why not try and get trace readings. Plus isol8 is an all in one it’s an easy way to see if the traces go up or not.

The issue is that we have little direct info on what levels of which chemical forms of which elements are too low, just right, or too much, for any individual organism.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The zinc is high in RODI so it’s mainly coming from my water or maybe the plastic jugs I hold the water in. I did pull the sample those jugs and the water will usually sit in there 4-7 days before use. Next test I’ll pull directly from the unit see if that changes the results. Then i can rule the jugs the problem.

As for the current levels I’m not going to do anything about them unless the next test shows a heavy increase. I have read maybe cuprisorb or metasorb might bind them.

Maybe. I don't think you can say where the zinc in the display came from. Remember that if there is 3 ug/l in the top off water and you replace only 1% evaporation daily, then it is adding only 0.03 ug/l per day, and if the tank has 6 ug/L, that top off may not be the source.

 

[805reeftank]

Maybe. I don't think you can say where the zinc in the display came from. Remember that if there is 3 ug/l in the top off water and you replace only 1% evaporation daily, then it is adding only 0.03 ug/l per day, and if the tank has 6 ug/L, that top off may not be the source.

The issue is that we have little direct info on what levels of which chemical forms of which elements are too low, just right, or too much, for any individual organism.

True. I’m just going off the colors in the coral. If I can see i difference and levels are detectable then I’ll continue.

 

[805reeftank]

Maybe. I don't think you can say where the zinc in the display came from. Remember that if there is 3 ug/l in the top off water and you replace only 1% evaporation daily, then it is adding only 0.03 ug/l per day, and if the tank has 6 ug/L, that top off may not be the source.

What about my water changes? I use the stored water from the jugs for water changes then I refill them for next weeks water change and top off.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What about my water changes? I use the stored water from the jugs for water changes then I refill them for next weeks water change and top off.

Unlikely. Since the new water would be lower than the tank (assuming both tank and RO/DI values are accurate), then water change removes it, not adds it.

 

[Pod_01]

The way I look at it we never went to bottom out phosphate and nitrate so why not try and get trace readings. Plus isol8 is an all in one it’s an easy way to see if the traces go up or not.

Interesting comparison but I am not sure it is correct.

PO4 is not a trace element but a nutrient and works with N (ammonia, NO2, NO3 etc…).

For example you can eat well, but if your food is missing Fe you will develop iron deficiency over time… If you don’t eat you will starve even if you use Fe supplement…

 

[805reeftank]

Unlikely. Since the new water would be lower than the tank (assuming both tank and RO/DI values are accurate), then water change removes it, not adds it.

That makes sense. We’ll see if it climbs.

 

[805reeftank]

Interesting comparison but I am not sure it is correct.

PO4 is not a trace element but a nutrient and works with N (ammonia, NO2, NO3 etc…).

For example you can eat well, but if your food is missing Fe you will develop iron deficiency over time… If you don’t eat you will starve even if you use Fe supplement…

Exactly my point. I’m not after growth everything is growing fine. I’m after the color and just like in nutrition it’s the small stuff that gets you to the next level. Vitamins=trace elements in my mind. Either way I’ll fine out if it makes a difference, doesn’t cost me much to give it a try 18 bucks for the trace 45 for the test.

 

[rishma]

Zinc is used as a stabilizer in PVC and maybe other plastics. That may be the source in the RO/DI, but it may also be getting directly into the tank if similar plastics are used there.

I knew I read that somewhere!