4 days into my cycle.

[brandon429]

I think you're about to prove the day ten thing for instance # 34, 400.
excellent
and if that test wasn't trending down, the kit would be wrong, not the rule. in this case we got lucky the master tint green agrees.

new cycling science predicts when a tank is ready, opposite of open-ended waits. time to read up on disease preps, its required in today's dry rock new starts, required yep. non negotiable in fact

no more testing is/was needed / in any cycle due to the timing rule.


dont think it's an option. spend a day reading all the new help me posts in the disease forum. on each entrant, click their avatar, select find all posts, and look how old their tank is (8 mos or less is the majority trend, any page audited, every year)

so that means by august...

also
how you cycle, quick or slow and thorough, has no impact on disease expression rates. they express based on your level of application.

 

[brandon429]

another fun fact since we're facting

right now, on seneye, you'd be done. there's a lag with api that will make you think, for 4 more days, you aren't. that kit wrecks reef tank cycling, you should toss all three from api for sure now and reef without doubt. this will specifically help you prep for disease better for sure.

cycles do not take weeks/ days to handle wastes once they begin action, our surface area/current and placement makes it happen faster than cheap tests will show. on seneye you'd be in the thousandths ppm right now nh3, not 1 or .5 nh4 here making it seem like it's barely dropped

once api catches the drop, it's already happened. no seneye chart in history shows more than a day for ammonia control, in a home reef tank, once any action begins. it's api that ranges 5-100 days to completion, which is not true at all.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Today is DAY 6 of my 20 gallon tank cycle. Here are my numbers. Also a photo for you guys to double check my readings.
pH: 8.03. (test not shown)
Ammonia: .5 ppm
Nitrite: 2.0 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm
Temp: 78F

What you guys think? Cycle going well??

Yep — you are pretty much done and ready to go.

As for as proving x number of days — I personally would not give that any credence. Each system is different and while a great number will respond quickly, not all do.

Good luck with the tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

and if that test wasn't trending down, the kit would be wrong, not the rule. in this case we got lucky the master tint green agrees.

That is not correct information.

1 - There is no rule, just the fact that ammonia will begin to drop when the available bacteria colonies grow large enough to process it faster than it is being input. Until that time valid ammonia tests will show it rising or not dropping. This does no denote a faulty test.

2 - there is no luck involved and the tests kits and people testing are not all faulty with only a few rare lucky instances of valid readings.

new cycling science predicts when a tank is ready,

Can you define this “new science”? You use the term repeatedly but refuse to define it.

Other than referencing random internet threads, many of which simply mirror the same claims, can you please show the actual science that proves what you are saying?

 

[brandon429]

bean, from the sidelines:


if you have any original work on cycling, let's see it

if you had some work, I could assess it for accuracy like you do mine.

how does being a 3d printer seller qualify you to comment on cycles for other people, you study that? you have patterns you've collected that make your case/

can I see, or excuses?

 

[brandon429]

prediction:
words, not links are coming.

imagine how good for the site, and science, it'd be if when you disagreed you wrote it like this:

Brandon, I studied and found something different, see here

and then your results speak, and we look at them like gentlemen. can you imagine behaving this way, as a grown man>?

 

[FUNGI]

Today is DAY 6 of my 20 gallon tank cycle. Here are my numbers. Also a photo for you guys to double check my readings.
pH: 8.03. (test not shown)
Ammonia: .5 ppm
Nitrite: 2.0 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm
Temp: 78F

What you guys think? Cycle going well??

You are well on the way.....sit back, drink your favorite drink and just wait another week or so. Use that time to plan your next steps (i.e. what type fish, CUC etc etc).......
By the time the dust settles on this thread about the best way to cycle, you'll be done anyway.

 

[BeanAnimal]

One does not have to do "work" to understand science. Likewise, posting threads or doing "work" does not make one a scientist. So let's focus on what we know.

You repeatedly mention “new cycling science” but have yet to actually define it or provide evidence other than anecdotal rules and predictions. Where are the studies, white papers, or peer reviewed data showing that all tanks cycle uniformly within 10 days regardless of the (numerous) variables?

Your rules and predictions about cycling timelines and test kit accuracy are not supported by the long established science of nitrifying bacteria. The process is variable depending and depends on numerous factors. Claiming that a tank will be ready by a specific day and dismissing test kits (or those who operate them) when they don’t align with your expectations is both unscientific and misleading.

Regarding my contributions (or lack thereof) to this hobby. I will remind you of my overflow design, almost universally used in both DIY and commercial aquariums, development of various tools, articles and advice, helping to plan and executing MACNA 2007, and serving on our club's board for over a decade, my focus is and has always been on helping hobbyists on forums. Part of which is countering the misinformation that runs rampant in this hobby.

The OP’s tank is progressing as expected. There was no need inject arbitrary 10-day timelines, disease predictions or self-promotion into the thread.

Cycling isn’t about deadlines or one-size-fits-all rules or predictions -- it’s about allowing nature to do its work and letting new aquarists understand a bit about the process.

It would be much more helpful and educational for people if the focus was on the biology of the process rather than empty rhetoric and constant attacks against established science and those who share it.

 

[FUNGI]

Cycling isn’t about deadlines or one-size-fits-all rules or predictions -- it’s about allowing nature to do its work and letting new aquarists understand a bit about the process.

IMO and 50+ years in the hobby, (yes contrary to my avatar, I am old) .....this is about the best piece of advice/statement I have heard/read.

Edit: Plus 5+ years working in the aquarium hobby at a high level.

 

[flyweed]

One does not have to do "work" to understand science. Likewise, posting threads or doing "work" does not make one a scientist. So let's focus on what we know.

You repeatedly mention “new cycling science” but have yet to actually define it or provide evidence other than anecdotal rules and predictions. Where are the studies, white papers, or peer reviewed data showing that all tanks cycle uniformly within 10 days regardless of the (numerous) variables?

Your rules and predictions about cycling timelines and test kit accuracy are not supported by the long established science of nitrifying bacteria. The process is variable depending and depends on numerous factors. Claiming that a tank will be ready by a specific day and dismissing test kits (or those who operate them) when they don’t align with your expectations is both unscientific and misleading.

Regarding my contributions (or lack thereof) to this hobby. I will remind you of my overflow design, almost universally used in both DIY and commercial aquariums, development of various tools, articles and advice, helping to plan and executing MACNA 2007, and serving on our club's board for over a decade, my focus is and has always been on helping hobbyists on forums. Part of which is countering the misinformation that runs rampant in this hobby.

The OP’s tank is progressing as expected. There was no need inject arbitrary 10-day timelines, disease predictions or self-promotion into the thread.

Cycling isn’t about deadlines or one-size-fits-all rules or predictions -- it’s about allowing nature to do its work and letting new aquarists understand a bit about the process.

It would be much more helpful and educational for people if the focus was on the biology of the process rather than empty rhetoric and constant attacks against established science and those who share it.

Thanks BeanAnimal.

I was getting tired reading his long drawn out posts, that for a good share of it was hard to decipher. I am not a newby in this hobby. 25 years ago I had a 120 gallon reef tank complete with hard to keep sps and clams. I loved it, but marriage and kids happened, so the hobby had to go away for a while. Now 25 years later, I am back. A lot has changed, but the " cycle" has not. I simply took what I learned back then and applied that with so more reading on current practices. I was smart in that I used live sand in this tank that already had beneficial bacteria in it. I also seeded that sand bed with a cup of sand from a friend's 8 year old reef. Same for the rock I put in. I used 3/4 dry pukani rock, but the last 1/4 was actual lie rock straight out of that same 8 year old reef tank. I also added Fluval Cycle product according to directions for the first 3 days. I do believe that all of this has really helped me get a good jump start on my cycle. I know to leave we'll enough alone too. I'm not one to always mess with things and try and hurry things up. I sor back and watch and rest of course, as I like to see how my water parameters are reacting. Also I wanted to add to Brandon, that I know API tests may or may not be super accurate, but I also have Hanna Checkers here as well and have double checked the numbers and Hanna checkers are verifying that the API tests are indeed correct.

Thanks.

 

[brandon429]

@BeanAnimal

no, thats incorrect as well.


cycling is about aiming participants towards disease control, since they can mess up that part. waiting ten days isn't tough/we don't mess up the actual cycles

also, Bean, we've covered well: you have never seen a failed cycle we can read.


*also, you typed that from not having any work, it's not that work done is insignificant. that's two predictions I made here, so far. want a third?

at no time has anyone in this thread seen a failed cycle, but they've seen fish disease... (the crowd rejects that claim, but without links, I know I know)

I'll quit pressing you on this one bean, you got this clearly.

 

[BeanAnimal]

. Now 25 years later, I am back. A lot has changed, but the " cycle" has not.… I do believe that all of this has really helped me get a good jump start on my cycle.

LR and sand gave you a big head start. The dead shrimp provided the fuel to allow the already colonized rock and sand to expand quickly to accommodate.

IMHO — not has much has changed as you think. There is more snake oil and more dedicated equipment, but the general husbandry remains.

A change is the more common use of carbon dosing as well as far fewer low nutrient systems or that being the goal.

The carbon dosing and filter rollers however are creating ULN type environments where the new trend is offsetting that by N and P dosing. So maybe a new game of chasing your tail under the guise of control? But isn’t it always?

We used to feed like crazy and not filter well and try desperately to lower N and P.

Now we use carbon dosing and roller filters to remove too much N and P and have to dose back to prevent dinos and cyano.

I don’t know which way is better or want to experiment, so I just stick to the method I have for 20 years.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

I think you're about to prove the day ten thing for instance # 34, 400.
excellent
and if that test wasn't trending down, the kit would be wrong, not the rule. in this case we got lucky the master tint green agrees.

new cycling science predicts when a tank is ready, opposite of open-ended waits. time to read up on disease preps, its required in today's dry rock new starts, required yep. non negotiable in fact

no more testing is/was needed / in any cycle due to the timing rule.


dont think it's an option. spend a day reading all the new help me posts in the disease forum. on each entrant, click their avatar, select find all posts, and look how old their tank is (8 mos or less is the majority trend, any page audited, every year)

so that means by august...

also
how you cycle, quick or slow and thorough, has no impact on disease expression rates. they express based on your level of application.

So what is your recommendation on a new tank that has just passed the nitrogen cycle using dry rock and quick start bacteria as far as adding fish… don’t add them for at least six months or so?

 

[gbroadbridge]

I am just 4 days into the cycle. I am doing a fishless cycle. I used "arag-alive" reef sand (the wet kind with bacteria in it) and then I used a majority of dry Pukani rock, but I did also seed my tank with 3 small pieces of actual live rock from an 8 year old reef tank. I also seeded my sand bed with one cup of live sand from the same 8 year old reef tank. Right now my temp is 78F, my pH is 8.0 and I have a salinity of 1.024. My water parameters are: Ammonia 2.0ppm, Nitrite 0.5 ppm and Nitrate 5.0 ppm. My question is, how is this looking as far as the cycle? I also used a pinch of fish food for ammonia and I also added one frozen shrimp from a bag of raw shrimp we had in our freezer. I am just wondering if I'll see much of an Ammonia spike or anything? Right now everything is remaining fairly low. Oh, I should say I also dosed with a the dosing chart on a bottle of Fluval Cycle, concentrated biological bacteria. Any thoughts?

Remove the frozen shrimp and just leave the tank for another 2 to 3 weeks.

No need to test waste time and money testing, the cycle will be complete by then.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

I carbon dose daily and do constant water changes, feed heavy and disease free for a year.. knock on wood..

 

[BeanAnimal]

Remove the frozen shrimp and just leave the tank for another 2 to 3 weeks.

No need to test waste time and money testing, the cycle will be complete by then.

I think it is no longer frozen

As far as safely supporting fish, the tank should be fine now. With regard to letting it go for a few weeks, I do like the idea. It has always been my belief that in context to a new reef, especially with a lot of base rock, time creates stability and allows natural progression of life to take hold.

Other’s may disagree or have different methods.

 

[flyweed]

I think it is no longer frozen

As far as safely supporting fish, the tank should be fine now. With regard to letting it go for a few weeks, I do like the idea. It has always been my belief that in context to a new reef, especially with a lot of base rock, time creates stability and allows natural progression of life to take hold.

Other’s may disagree or have different methods.

Bean...I think we would get along great. I feel I could sit and talk to you for hours about this stuff. Others...not so much.