a very sick purple tang

[Liron Mishal]

3 tangs in my QT for the last month, purple, scopas and yellow.
past 14 days at 1.8ppm of copper power.
2 days ago i saw what could be a bacterial infection, probably cause of some aggression between the tangs. he's actually the guy who irritates everyone
i got a hold on some kanaplex and took a second look before starting treatment
no it appears that the infection has got larger and no i can see what appears to be ich?!?!
pictures from today. the tiny dots that are in focus are actually air bubbles, i marked the actual dots.

I'm planning on doing a 100% WC and dose 1.75ppm before putting the fish back in the QT.
after 14 days, move to a sterile QT and dose with kanaplex.
would you agree with this course of action?

 

[4FordFamily]

I would do kanaplex, metroplex, and furan 2 in a quarantine with copper for the remaining ich/velvet.

Also, I'd source Nitrofuracin Green (NFG) for use afterward -- copper and antibiotics together may keep it from worsening or slowly improve it but after copper I'd use NFG alone for 14 more days it should clear it up.

 

[Liron Mishal]

cant source it around here.. even tried at pharmacies..
where would be a good source for it online?

the other question is how did it get ich (do you think it's velvet???) while in copper at therapeutic level for 14 days?

 

[Brew12]

I would do kanaplex, metroplex, and furan 2 in a quarantine with copper for the remaining ich/velvet.

Also, I'd source Nitrofuracin Green (NFG) for use afterward -- copper and antibiotics together may keep it from worsening or slowly improve it but after copper I'd use NFG alone for 14 more days it should clear it up.

Since it's already been in copper for 14 days, don't you think it should be transferred to the clean QT now and then treated with the antibiotics until NFG can be procured?

 

[Brew12]

the other question is how did it get ich (do you think it's velvet???) while in copper at therapeutic level for 14 days?

I don't believe it is. I think it is either stress spots or smaller patches from the bacterial infection.

 

[4FordFamily]

Since it's already been in copper for 14 days, don't you think it should be transferred to the clean QT now and then treated with the antibiotics until NFG can be procured?

Yes, this would be a good course of action. If spots move around or disappear in a day to a few days or become more numerous perhaps it was a failed attempt at eradicating. I do see spots that look like ich but let’s treat for the more pressing issue and see what happens.

 

[Brew12]

cant source it around here.. even tried at pharmacies..
where would be a good source for it online?

This is the only place I've seen it in a smaller quantity.
http://store.everythingaquatic.net/drugs-chemicals-c-42_44/nitrofuracin-green-p-316

 

[Liron Mishal]

I don't believe it is. I think it is either stress spots or smaller patches from the bacterial infection.

I sure hope so.. i'm a little frustrated about the copper treatment. i followed the protocol to the tee and still have these dots.
the Scopas and yellow tangs did show any spots or bacterial infections though.. no one is twiching or rubbing against the pvc tubes, including the purple tang

Yes, this would be a good course of action. If spots move around or disappear in a day to a few days or become more numerous perhaps it was a failed attempt at eradicating. I do see spots that look like ich but let’s treat for the more pressing issue and see what happens.

so if i get it right (and excuse me for being a little thick headed), these are the actions to follow:
1) 100% WC with full copper dosage
2) kanaplex, metroplex and furan 2 in the water column
3) after 14 of copper and re dosing meds according to the lables, move to a sterile QT
4) NFG (not sure i will get it in time) for another 14 days.

 

[4FordFamily]

I sure hope so.. i'm a little frustrated about the copper treatment. i followed the protocol to the tee and still have these dots.
the Scopas and yellow tangs did show any spots or bacterial infections though.. no one is twiching or rubbing against the pvc tubes, including the purple tang


so if i get it right (and excuse me for being a little thick headed), these are the actions to follow:
1) 100% WC with full copper dosage
2) kanaplex, metroplex and furan 2 in the water column
3) after 14 of copper and re dosing meds according to the lables, move to a sterile QT
4) NFG (not sure i will get it in time) for another 14 days.

That was my original suggestion. Brew's alternate suggestion may work as well. If you're pretty sure it still has ich/velvet then I do think this is a good course of action, yes.

 

[Liron Mishal]

Well, im not sure it doesn't have ich..
Just to be clear, none of them had ich/velvet..
I will follow the plan.

Thanks guys! I'll keep you posted

 

[Brew12]

Well, im not sure it doesn't have ich..
Just to be clear, none of them had ich/velvet..
I will follow the plan.

Thanks guys! I'll keep you posted

I want to make sure I'm not missing something. They have currently been in 1.8ppm copper for 14 days already at this point, right? If so, the fish would be parasite free for 5 days although some could be encysted in the tank. It may still have some signs, but no actual parasites. Keep in mind that the white spots from ich are actually mucus, and that will remain for awhile after the parasite leaves the fish.

My thought is that if there are living parasites then the copper is ineffective and not worth pursuing in the same manner. If there are no parasites left on the fish than what you are seeing is related to the copper and the copper should be removed sooner rather than later. The copper will also make it harder for the fish to fight off the infection.

Unless you think you have made a mistake during the course of the copper treatment I'm not sure why you wouldn't do the transfer to a clean QT ASAP.

 

[Liron Mishal]

@Brew12
Yes, they are in 1.8ppm for 14 days today.
What i was saying is that i never saw any sign of ich or anything else for that matter during the 30 days of qt.
I understand that ich leaving the fish leaves some white mucus, but i dont think that there ever was ich to leave the fish
I cannot be sure though. If it is ich, wouldn't the other fish should have got it too by now?

The reason im not moving them to a new qt is that i don't have one ready at the moment. And if it is ich, then copper is the only treatment, what am i getting wrong?

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12
Yes, they are in 1.8ppm for 14 days today.
What i was saying is that i never saw any sign of ich or anything else for that matter during the 30 days of qt.
I understand that ich leaving the fish leaves some white mucus, but i dont think that there ever was ich to leave the fish
I cannot be sure though. If it is ich, wouldn't the other fish should have got it too by now?

The reason im not moving them to a new qt is that i don't have one ready at the moment. And if it is ich, then copper is the only treatment, what am i getting wrong?

Ah, I thought you had the sterile QT ready.
Fish cannot be infected with ich while at therapuetic levels of copper. The theront (swimming) stage is rapidly killed. Since it can take 2 or 3 days for the white mucus stringer to appear you should never see new signs of ich or velvet more than 4 days after getting to the proper copper level. That is why I'm confident these new spots are not ich. But, without a sterile QT to move them into, you need to treat in copper for a full 30 days.

 

[Liron Mishal]

I hope you are right,
I will get a new qt and move them to it.
New heater and power heads. I will treat them with kanaplex and hope its not ich..

 

[Brew12]

I hope you are right,
I will get a new qt and move them to it.
New heater and power heads. I will treat them with kanaplex and hope its not ich..

I feel this is the best choice. I would try to use Kanaplex, Metroplex, and Furan 2 if you can't get NFG. The broader spectrum of antibiotics you can use, the better.

If it is ich there is little reason to think that additional time in copper would help. And I sure hope we haven't come across a copper resistant form of ich, that would be awful! ;Nailbiting

 

[Liron Mishal]

I'm stocking up like a mad man;Punch
Got kanaplex, ill get a prescription for metronidazole from my vet and i have furan 2 comming in on Saturday, nfg ordered as well
Im going fully armed on this one;Doctor;Nurse

 

[Brew12]

I'm stocking up like a mad man;Punch
Got kanaplex, ill get a prescription for metronidazole from my vet and i have furan 2 comming in on Saturday, nfg ordered as well
Im going fully armed on this one;Doctor;Nurse

You should be able to get Metroplex over the counter from the same place you got the Kanaplex. You can also get them via amazon.

 

[Liron Mishal]

Dude i wish i was living in the states...
Those medicines are not allowed to be imported here,
Getting them from amazon is an option but it can takes up to three weeks. Easier to get them fron the vet

 

[Brew12]

Dude i wish i was living in the states...
Those medicines are not allowed to be imported here,
Getting them from amazon is an option but it can takes up to three weeks. Easier to get them fron the vet

Ugh.. sorry.. didn't realize you were international. You guys have some real challenges when it comes to getting medications.

 

[Liron Mishal]

Ok. This is 100% not ich. Its bacterial infection.
I believe that the dots are from the other tangs attacks.
Dosed with kanaplex today, i will re dose as the label instructions
After 3 doses i will move them to a sterile qt and treat with nfg (if it will arrive by then)

Thank you guys! Love the support