Ammonia appearing in RODI after a few days.* NO CHLOROMINES DETECTED :/*

[SepiaOfficinallis]

Hey guys, really hoping I can get some help with this one.

I am reading ammonia in my RODI water on a time delay. Fresh RODI water reads zero PPM on my Hach DR/890. RODI That has been sitting out on the counter for ~3 days in lightly covered plastic cup reads 0.37ppm ammonia.

After doing some research I decided it was likely chloramines that were the culprit. I rotated my second carbon to the first slot and replace the first with a 1 Micron MATRIKX ChloraGuard from BRS.

I have a 7 stage 75gpd RODI:

1 micron sediment filter -> universal carbon -> matrix chloraguard -> RO membrane -> cation -> anion -> mixed

I'm really at a loss here. I thought for sure the chlorine block would fix it but in my haste I guess I didn't think to actually test the freshly made RODI water for chlorine, of which it has none (Total chlorine DPD on Hach DR/890)

The only other thing Ive seen is one thread on a nano reform about ambient ammonia in one's house dissolving into the RODI. I intend to do another test where I test a sealed bottle versus an open cup after a few days to see if that makes the difference, in which case I'm not really sure what to do about that....


As for the effect this is having on my tanks, I am unable to accurately test nitrate because I always have high nitrites (~0.2ppm). Obviously, all of that extra ammonia is also contributing to lots of nitrates.


As for tanks I have a 2-month-old waterbox infinia frag 155 with a beautiful white tail bristle tooth, pyramid butterfly, and neon goby that I am running fallow until I'm satisfied they are healthy, and an 80 gallon mixed reef. The tanks usually read zero or low ammonia but there are always nitrites Which, as I said interferes with testing for nitrates on my Hanna high range nitrate checker.


Thoughts?

 

[Troylee]

Better luck in the reef chemistry forum but I’ll bring @Randy Holmes-Farley over here to answer for ya!

 

[IceNein]

You consider 0.2 ppm nitrates high?

 

[SepiaOfficinallis]

You consider 0.2 ppm nitrates high?

No, in my editing I mistakenly left out that that is 0.2 PPM nitrites, which is interfering with my ability to test nitrates

 

[SepiaOfficinallis]

Better luck in the reef chemistry forum but I’ll bring @Randy Holmes-Farley over here to answer for ya!

Thank you, I don't post really at all on here mainly just research so I wasn't quite sure if that was the appropriate place to put it or not. I am very much hoping to hear from Randy

 

[Troylee]

Do you have corals in the tank? They rapidly take up any ammonia if so! I mean it’s the cool thing to do now is dose ammonia in our reef tanks haha! I’m purposely adding ammonia every day to feed my corals.

 

[SepiaOfficinallis]

Do you have corals in the tank? They rapidly take up any ammonia if so! I mean it’s the cool thing to do now is dose ammonia in our reef tanks haha! I’m purposely adding ammonia every day to feed my corals

I have quite a few corals in the 80 gallon and none in the 155 as of yet, We had a slab leak about 6 months ago under the floor in the room where my only tank, the 80gal, was. Given they were going to have to drill into concrete this resulted in me having to break down the entire tank and move it to another room in our house. We are still in the process of recovering from that and the goal is to move everything over to the water box and convert the 80 to a seagrass marine planted tank.

I've always struggled with too much nitrates in my tanks so the ammonia is definitely not a welcome addition given it is actively hindering my nitrate removal efforts. Maybe someday in the future I will need to do that but for now I struggle

 

[Troylee]

I have quite a few corals in the 80 gallon and none in the 155 as of yet, We had a slab leak about 6 months ago under the floor in the room where my only tank, the 80gal, was. Given they were going to have to drill into concrete this resulted in me having to break down the entire tank and move it to another room in our house. We are still in the process of recovering from that and the goal is to move everything over to the water box and convert the 80 to a seagrass marine planted tank.

I've always struggled with too much nitrates in my tanks so the ammonia is definitely not a welcome addition given it is actively hindering my nitrate removal efforts. Maybe someday in the future I will need to do that but for now I struggle

Well I’d say water changes but that seems to be how you got here lol… I’ll let Randy give you the scientifical data as I suck at science myself lol.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am not sure why you read some ammonia, but it’s not a problematic amount in any situation I can think of for a normal reef.

Many people dose ammonia regularly these days.

 

[SepiaOfficinallis]

I am not sure why you read some ammonia, but it’s not a problematic amount in any situation I can think of for a normal reef.

Many people dose ammonia regularly these days.

The main problem this presents for me is I am unable to get an accurate nitrate reading due to the high nitrites, which comes from the constant ammonia. I'm not really sure why nitrite processing in both of my tanks is so slow either.

 

[Garf]

Thoughts

Are both tanks just a few months old?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The main problem this presents for me is I am unable to get an accurate nitrate reading due to the high nitrites, which comes from the constant ammonia. I'm not really sure why nitrite processing in both of my tanks is so slow either.

Maybe the nitrite test is not accurate?

Tropic Marin provides a correction table for their nitrate kit.

 

[Malcontent]

I have never had 0 nitrites using a Hach nitrite test. Fortunately, my Hach nitrate test says nitrite only interferes if it's > 8 ppm.

 

[SepiaOfficinallis]

Maybe the nitrite test is not accurate?

Tropic Marin provides a correction table for their nitrate kit.

I am a marine biologist by trade, and only into the hobby for the past three or four years. This does mean I have access to some good kit including various lab grade Hach testers ranging from my little Hach DR 890 all the way up to a Hach DR6000 bench top.

With the bench top I am able to test nitrates such that they automatically correct for/zero out nitrites and the difference is huge, my Hanna checker will read around 60ppm nitrates, an API aqua spin will read about the same but the nitrite corrected measurement by the bench top Hach will read like 30ppm nitrates. (I'm having nitrate issues but it does make me chuckle when people get worried that they have high nitrates for corals and are sitting at like 10ppm).

Regardless, the nitrite test should be accurate, its what I use on my 10,000 gallon work tank so I sure hope it is.

It's also worth saying that this ammonia build up gets worse than just .3ppm, I have had salt water in my basin get up to 1.57ppm ammonia after sitting for like a week. I'd rather not have to do a large water change due to some emergency and be adding that much ammonia.

Really wish I could find the source and nip it off. Is gaseous ammonia diffusing into RODI something you think has any merit?

 

[SepiaOfficinallis]

I have never had 0 nitrites using a Hach nitrite test. Fortunately, my Hach nitrate test says nitrite only interferes if it's > 8 ppm.

I unfortunately don have the nitrate test for the hach dr890.

Which testing method/reagents do you use for what model Hach?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am a marine biologist by trade, and only into the hobby for the past three or four years. This does mean I have access to some good kit including various lab grade Hach testers ranging from my little Hach DR 890 all the way up to a Hach DR6000 bench top.

With the bench top I am able to test nitrates such that they automatically correct for/zero out nitrites and the difference is huge, my Hanna checker will read around 60ppm nitrates, an API aqua spin will read about the same but the nitrite corrected measurement by the bench top Hach will read like 30ppm nitrates. (I'm having nitrate issues but it does make me chuckle when people get worried that they have high nitrates for corals and are sitting at like 10ppm).

Regardless, the nitrite test should be accurate, its what I use on my 10,000 gallon work tank so I sure hope it is.

It's also worth saying that this ammonia build up gets worse than just .3ppm, I have had salt water in my basin get up to 1.57ppm ammonia after sitting for like a week. I'd rather not have to do a large water change due to some emergency and be adding that much ammonia.

Really wish I could find the source and nip it off. Is gaseous ammonia diffusing into RODI something you think has any merit?

What are you storing it in?

Various amines may give false ammonia readings, but explaining why they are there is equally difficult.

How do you know chloramine is not a possibility?

 

[Malcontent]

I unfortunately don have the nitrate test for the hach dr890.

Which testing method/reagents do you use for what model Hach?

I use this nitrate test which is a knock off of this Hach one with the DR/900. I haven't tried to test saltwater nitrate with it though.

When used in freshwater, the Hanna and Hach aren't even close. I'm going to have to make a nitrate standard to see which one is off but my money's on the Hanna.

With the bench top I am able to test nitrates such that they automatically correct for/zero out nitrites and the difference is huge, my Hanna checker will read around 60ppm nitrates, an API aqua spin will read about the same but the nitrite corrected measurement by the bench top Hach will read like 30ppm nitrates.

What nitrate method are you using that lets you zero out nitrite?

I've noticed distilled or RO water exposed to the atmosphere can pick up enough ammonia for the test to be visibly green. And the more I uncap a jug of distilled water the greener it gets.

1.57 ppm seems a bit excessive to me though. I store tap and RO water and if it sits long enough it has undetectable ammonia despite being exposed to the atmosphere. I assume enough nitrification eventually happens to take care of whatever ammonia is being absorbed from the air. I'm not sure why it would persist in your stored water though...

 

[SepiaOfficinallis]

What are you storing it in?

Various amines may give false ammonia readings, but explaining why they are there is equally difficult.

How do you know chloramine is not a possibility?

Hach DPD total chlorine test on fresh RODI reads 0.00.

I have been storing my salt water in a Uline 55gal drum, and for the longest time thought the drum was leeching something into the water.

However, letting water sit out in other thinks such as glass and plastic cups also shows increasing ammonia over time. If the drum is contributing to the ammonia it is not the only contributor.

 

[SepiaOfficinallis]

I use this nitrate test which is a knock off of this Hach one with the DR/900. I haven't tried to test saltwater nitrate with it though.

When used in freshwater, the Hanna and Hach aren't even close. I'm going to have to make a nitrate standard to see which one is off but my money's on the Hanna.



What nitrate method are you using that lets you zero out nitrite?

I've noticed distilled or RO water exposed to the atmosphere can pick up enough ammonia for the test to be visibly green. And the more I uncap a jug of distilled water the greener it gets.

1.57 ppm seems a bit excessive to me though. I store tap and RO water and if it sits long enough it has undetectable ammonia despite being exposed to the atmosphere. I assume enough nitrification eventually happens to take care of whatever ammonia is being absorbed from the air. I'm not sure why it would persist in your stored water though...

My partner is also an aquarium industry professional also has access to some big toys. When we use her desktop Hach ~DR6000 for nitrite I believe that part of the zeroing is measuring nitrites before adding the nitrate reagents, and then running the test for nitrates after. She runs that one for me so I am less familiar.

Edit: she said "The zeroing is done at a different wavelength, I think" lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hach DPD total chlorine test on fresh RODI reads 0.00.

I have been storing my salt water in a Uline 55gal drum, and for the longest time thought the drum was leeching something into the water.

However, letting water sit out in other thinks such as glass and plastic cups also shows increasing ammonia over time. If the drum is contributing to the ammonia it is not the only contributor.

A seemingly obvious thing to rule out: cleaning agents used in the home that contain ammonia?

No cats in the home releasing ammonia from the litter box?