Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[nick9one1]

Unfortunately, I'm still struggling with amphidinium. The tank was looking pretty good a week ago, I could go 3/4 days without the sand looking too brown/red before stirring it up again.

For some reason, the amphidinium has come back in force. Possibly because my nitrate/phosphate dropped.

I'm now dosing Monopotasiium phosphate and potassium nitrate in the ATO. My levels are 10ppm Nitrate, 0.6 ppm phosphate and 1ppm silicate. All tested with Salifert.

I got the microscope out again to confirm it was still amphidinium. This is what I can see...

and on the back glass, diatoms?

 

[Idoc]

Yes 48hr or less. I'm trying to distinguish from the blackouts of 3 days which are commonly used and meant to kill off photosynthetic stuff. We're just trying to make them go into the water to find a better place (and meet UV instead).

I attempted a complete blackout of 5.5 days along with twice daily dosing 2.5mL H2O2 into the system... which was a 20g long coral quarantine tank with a hob filter.

The blackout did nothing to reduce the small cell amphidinium dinos, but it did put them all into the water column di much that my water looked brownish cloudy when I removed the blackout. The the dinos started clumping in the water column (when turning off the filter and single powerhead) so you could actually see strands of them in the water column that weren't settling to the bottom quickly like other debri.

I think running a UV sterilizer during the blackout would be tremendously helpful to kill amphidinium dinos by this finding. I didn't have a UV sterilizer to do this at that time, though. I am attempting a coral quarantine tank again (3rd try) and will do this if I am hit with dinos again.

 

[taricha]

I got the microscope out again to confirm it was still amphidinium. This is what I can see...

That's not their typical appearance. More pics or a vid to confirm?

and on the back glass, diatoms?

Yes. Diatoms.

I think running a UV sterilizer during the blackout would be tremendously helpful to kill amphidinium dinos by this finding

For small cell amphidinium, yes I agree. For large cell type, they won't go into the water.

 

[nick9one1]

These are all I can see now..

previously I could only see

I think I've gone from Amphidinium to Coolia?

 

[Soakem]

So i originally thought that I had ostreopsis but now looking through this thread I’m beginning to think it’s Amphidinium. Can anyone confirm for me.

Thank you.

 

[taricha]

Can anyone confirm for me.

Definitely ostreopsis.

 

[citres]

With algaeid.com being offline, where can we go for examples of these under microscope?

 

[taricha]

With algaeid.com being offline, where can we go for examples of these under microscope?

I didn't realize it was. Maybe I should put something up.

 

[citres]

Sorry for poor quality iphone video.... @taricha Amphidinium?

 

[taricha]

Amphidinium?

Coolia, actually.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Still Fighting Amphidinium after 4 months. Honestly for the past year all those times I thought I had a diatom problem, I now believe it was dinos. They never got to the snotty stage but always patches of rust on the sandbed.

1. In addtion to the 36 watt UV on my return, I plumbed in a 55 watt UV into the DT and I am continuing to blast the the rust off the rocks with turkey basters, siphoning into a 10 micron sock and brushing.
   
2. I put ozone back on my skimmer and running it 24/7 with no ill effects but no real progress.
   
3. I have been dosing NeoPhos and the Hanna Low colorimeter is pretty steady between .06 - .12 ppm Phosphates. I have not done a 15-20% water change in almost 3 months but only 5 gallon replenishing as I continue to remove the sand bed so my Nitrates are on the high side at 25ppm.
   
4. "Reef Stew" has all kinds of algae, pods, rotifers,brine shrimp so I put a cup or 2 of that in the tank every 2 weeks.
   
5. There are small hints of green algae here and there but no GHA in the DT. The refugium however has GHA and what looks to be some turf algae but I still have a heck of time keeping cheato. Yellow and Blue Regal Tang are grazing on the glass which has spots of green and brown.
   
6. All the corals look decent actually with no tissue loss except for the orange Fungia that was on the sandbed and the Caulestra that has dinos on it. I would appreciate any comments on the following steps which I have yet to try or retry as this is all starting to feel like deja vu:

• Walt Smith Fiji Mud
• DinoX
• Lights out
• keep doing what i'm doing

Thanks for any feedback. Have not yet given up but the tank sure is not fun right now.

I have been fighting this same battle and have used some of your same methods. Any update on your dino situation?

 

[mattzang]

so i wandered into my lfs to ask about dinos today and they said trochus and astrea snails eat it?

it can't be that easy? plus i already have some of each..

 

[nick9one1]

so i wandered into my lfs to ask about dinos today and they said trochus and astrea snails eat it?

it can't be that easy? plus i already have some of each..

I'm sure certain strains of dinos kill inverts, including trochus and astrea.
My guess is that your LFS is just trying to make money.

 

[taricha]

A couple of problems with trochus and astrea snails.
They aren't even sand snails. They are rock and glass.
That said, if the toxins are low enough, some sand dwelling snails - ceriths and strombus will eat some dinos. But it's not super great for them, so they need other food to base majority diet on.

If the dinos are toxic, nothing can eat more than a tiny amount.

 

[mattzang]

i haven't really noticed any of my snails dying, my dino case doesn't seem to be overly bad, but bad enough to cause my alk consumption to go to 0. mixing up some water for a water change and uhh hoping for the best i guess.

anyone have success with the algaebarn method? adding sea lettuce and dosing their phyto? i have a refugium, but it's just chaeto in there and i pour in some reef nutrition phyto sometimes, no real consistency

 

[taricha]

Ulva seems more likely to be helpful than phyto.
Phyto supports tiny copepods that are too small/weak to eat dinos

 

[DesertReefT4r]

So I have been reading this slowly and pretty sure I have amphidinium. I also had undetectable no3 and low po4 0.03 for over a year then had a cyano bloom which I treated with Chemi Clean. Boom dinos which I thought was cyano again only Chemi Clean did not work so thought it was diatoms but it did not go away. I confirmed dinos with a microscope and used the normal methods of increased no3 and po4 with, dosing good bacteria, no water changes, black outs with no change. I even tried DinoX which did have an effect but I also lost all my corals during the treatment period. I have it 80-90% better now but seeing it slowly creep back over the sand. At the point where I am ready to remove all the sand. Here are some before and after pics of my reef and pics of the dinos for ID.

 

[taricha]

Amphidinium indeed. Check this for confirmation.

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

I'm sorry people are still using "dino"-x. It's not dino specific at all. It's a high risk algacide associated with more coral losses on this forum than any strain of dino.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Amphidinium indeed. Check this for confirmation.

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

www.reef2reef.com

I'm sorry people are still using "dino"-x. It's not dino specific at all. It's a high risk algacide associated with more coral losses on this forum than any strain of dino.

Thanks, thought I was dealing with amphidinium. I can confirm first hand that DinoX will kill off all your sps during treatment and it stresses lps big time. Lost a few acan heads, my euphilia closed up for weeks as did my duncan and my zoas. Mushrooms seem uneffected for the most part. Now I am not sure if it was the DinoX directly that has a negative effect or if its the resulting death of dinos and the release of toxins that effect corals. Dinox did have some effect on the amphidinium but in my case did not eliminate them, probably due to the fact amphidinium stay in the sand and are protected somewhat but the bio layer in the sand.

 

[leepink23]

This is what I have growing on my sand bed. I ordered a microscope and my question is about collecting a sample, what exactly do I do? Other than the sand my tank looks great. All coral growing fast. Will post a picture once I get a sample. Thanks in advance!