Another Ich Thread

[Reefer1978]

I am honestly getting pretty tired of this tank. I will add details in a bit as I have to step away for a sec, but wanted to share some pics, I am pretty confident it's ich.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I am honestly getting pretty tired of this tank. I will add details in a bit as I have to step away for a sec, but wanted to share some pics, I am pretty confident it's ich.

Not only does this happen despite no reason to but you are having an issue with a given fish which is very susceptible to ich and velvet. Often its triggered by stress and skin irritations and based on size of dots and raised dots on its face which appear to be mucus cones.
Unfortunately it will need to be again quarantined. The interesting observation with mucus cones is often other occupants show no signs but fine tooth comb them for any symptoms.
In a separate tank. apply either coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.

 

[Reefer1978]

Not only does this happen despite no reason to but you are having an issue with a given fish which is very susceptible to ich and velvet. Often its triggered by stress and skin irritations and based on size of dots and raised dots on its face which appear to be mucus cones.
Unfortunately it will need to be again quarantined. The interesting observation with mucus cones is often other occupants show no signs but fine tooth comb them for any symptoms.
In a separate tank. apply either coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.

Thanks for responding so quickly. I wanted to provide some details, couldn't do it earlier as I had to run deal with a delivery.

First lets talk about the DT. I am not sure why I am struggling so much with this tank, but it's been a non-stop Ich battle. The tank has gone through 2, 90-day fallow periods at higher temp, and then finally I've had enough and ran copper through it, more specifically Copper Safe, at 2.45-2.5 concentration for 30 days, verified daily with a Hannah checker.

And then I got the PB. It went into my QT tank, same process, 30-days Copper Sage, at 2.48-2.5, verified with Hannah, but not as often as it does not absorb copper. Verified weekly, never dropped below 2.38. Not a sign in QT tank, but of course there's no stress there, so no surprise. Post QT (both copper and Prazi) he looked perfect and went into the DT. Within days spots broke out, and another tang in the DT started flashing. No other specimen were added to the DT in the last month and a half, as I only add QTed items.

So I am at a loss, QT protocol does not seem to be working, or I have a resistant strain. I am thinking Hypo might be the next best bet for the DT, and I can treat everything together.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for responding so quickly. I wanted to provide some details, couldn't do it earlier as I had to run deal with a delivery.

First lets talk about the DT. I am not sure why I am struggling so much with this tank, but it's been a non-stop Ich battle. The tank has gone through 2, 90-day fallow periods at higher temp, and then finally I've had enough and ran copper through it, more specifically Copper Safe, at 2.45-2.5 concentration for 30 days, verified daily with a Hannah checker.

And then I got the PB. It went into my QT tank, same process, 30-days Copper Sage, at 2.48-2.5, verified with Hannah, but not as often as it does not absorb copper. Verified weekly, never dropped below 2.38. Not a sign in QT tank, but of course there's no stress there, so no surprise. Post QT (both copper and Prazi) he looked perfect and went into the DT. Within days spots broke out, and another tang in the DT started flashing. No other specimen were added to the DT in the last month and a half, as I only add QTed items.

So I am at a loss, QT protocol does not seem to be working, or I have a resistant strain. I am thinking Hypo might be the next best bet for the DT, and I can treat everything together.

The QT and Fallow process were done what seems like on spot but again with this type of fish and Hippo tang, it can begin with simple skin irritation despite quarantining. Hypo may work but in itself can at time impose stress on a given fish.

 

[Reefer1978]

The QT and Fallow process were done what seems like on spot but again with this type of fish and Hippo tang, it can begin with simple skin irritation despite quarantining. Hypo may work but in itself can at time impose stress on a given fish.

I just don't know what else to do meanwhile... QTing them again individually won't fix it if Ich is in the system, and running Copper through the entire tank again seems extreme, no?

 

[threebuoys]

Any possibility of accidental cross contamination during 90 fallow / QT period for the original DT inhabitants? Perhaps, therefore, the two systems were not clear of the parasite even though it was not visible? Nets, measuring cups, etc.? Your process sounds spot on, but something failed it seems.

 

[Reefer1978]

Any possibility of accidental cross contamination during 90 fallow / QT period for the original DT inhabitants? Perhaps, therefore, the two systems were not clear of the parasite even though it was not visible? Nets, measuring cups, etc.? Your process sounds spot on, but something failed it seems.

Fallow period to the side, copper took care of that. Only thing I can think of is resistant strain.

 

[Reefer1978]

So question: Cupramine, or Hypo? My buddy is telling me to go Cupramine route and I've never done hypo, so of course have concerns about that route. I also have a tiny bit of CopperSafe still reading on Hannah, so wondering how to dose Cupramine.

 

[Uncle99]

I found Hypo rather easy, maybe safer. (For me anyways)

1.009 not difficult to maintain.

Worked on a clown.
Not sure on tangs.

 

[Reefer1978]

I found Hypo rather easy, maybe safer. (For me anyways)

1.009 not difficult to maintain.

Worked on a clown.
Not sure on tangs.

I've been reading about it all day... some areas of concern - calibration for refractometers, PH upkeep, some folks reported deaths.

 

[Uncle99]

I've been reading about it all day... some areas of concern - calibration for refractometers, PH upkeep, some folks reported deaths.

I calibrate regularly and just ran 1.009.
10% water change 1.009 daily.
Vacuumed up missed food.
Never tested PH ever.

I wonder how many fish die of copper, seems easier to make mistakes.

But I hear your caution.

 

[Reefer1978]

I calibrate regularly and just ran 1.009.
10% water change 1.009 daily.
Vacuumed up missed food.
Never tested PH ever.

I wonder how many fish die of copper, seems easier to make mistakes.

But I hear your caution.

Never lost a fish to Copper, but of course that's just my experience.

 

[Uncle99]

Never lost a fish to Copper, but of course that's just my experience.

Always stick to what you know works.

 

[blecki]

I've successfully run hypo and eradicated ich with zero casualties.

I've also run hypo and had near 100% casualties.

IMO you shouldn't try it with a $40 eye piece refractometer.

 

[Uncle99]

I've successfully run hypo and eradicated ich with zero casualties.

I've also run hypo and had near 100% casualties.

IMO you shouldn't try it with a $40 eye piece refractometer.

How do you kill fish with Hypo?
Would you not have to be way, way off with salinity?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for responding so quickly. I wanted to provide some details, couldn't do it earlier as I had to run deal with a delivery.

First lets talk about the DT. I am not sure why I am struggling so much with this tank, but it's been a non-stop Ich battle. The tank has gone through 2, 90-day fallow periods at higher temp, and then finally I've had enough and ran copper through it, more specifically Copper Safe, at 2.45-2.5 concentration for 30 days, verified daily with a Hannah checker.

And then I got the PB. It went into my QT tank, same process, 30-days Copper Sage, at 2.48-2.5, verified with Hannah, but not as often as it does not absorb copper. Verified weekly, never dropped below 2.38. Not a sign in QT tank, but of course there's no stress there, so no surprise. Post QT (both copper and Prazi) he looked perfect and went into the DT. Within days spots broke out, and another tang in the DT started flashing. No other specimen were added to the DT in the last month and a half, as I only add QTed items.

So I am at a loss, QT protocol does not seem to be working, or I have a resistant strain. I am thinking Hypo might be the next best bet for the DT, and I can treat everything together.

In the third pic down, I can see diffuse white spots on the tang's pectoral fins - that does look like ich to me.

There isn't any valid reference for a "copper resistant" strain of ich. Ich crops up in systems where everything done *should* have eliminated it, but with careful evaluation, there is usually some biosecurity issue that allowed it to make it through the process.

PBT tangs are so prone to ich, that for many years, I just avoided buying them (sigh).

Jay

 

[Reefer1978]

In the third pic down, I can see diffuse white spots on the tang's pectoral fins - that does look like ich to me.

There isn't any valid reference for a "copper resistant" strain of ich. Ich crops up in systems where everything done *should* have eliminated it, but with careful evaluation, there is usually some biosecurity issue that allowed it to make it through the process.

PBT tangs are so prone to ich, that for many years, I just avoided buying them (sigh).

Jay

I can't thin of any biosecurity issue, and the diffused white spots on fins have been present on the trigger throughout, even when she went through her own QT, same length, 30 days.

Jay what do you recommend? Cupramine or Hypo?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I can't thin of any biosecurity issue, and the diffused white spots on fins have been present on the trigger throughout, even when she went through her own QT, same length, 30 days.

Jay what do you recommend? Cupramine or Hypo?

You mentioned spots on a trigger? They are prone to developing cysts that look like ich, but are larger. I just ignore those if they are in the same location on the trigger for more than three days.

Not Cupramine, it can be harsh. Coppersafe at 2.25 ppm would be a safer choice.

Hyposalinity at 1.009 is effective if done correctly.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Reefer1978]

You mentioned spots on a trigger? They are prone to developing cysts that look like ich, but are larger. I just ignore those if they are in the same location on the trigger for more than three days.

Not Cupramine, it can be harsh. Coppersafe at 2.25 ppm would be a safer choice.

Hyposalinity at 1.009 is effective if done correctly.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Coppersafe seems to be impossible to pull out of the DT, I know Cupramine is harsher, but I want to use something that doesn't bind so much, and gets pulled out with GAC better. I tried Cuprisorb, I tried Poly-filter, Coppersage is taking forever!!!

 

[blecki]

How do you kill fish with Hypo?
Would you not have to be way, way off with salinity?

No, just a little off.