Anthias in a 40 Breeder

[Adamantium]

I’m fairly certain I know the answer, so please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but would it be irresponsible to add 3 small lyretail anthias to a 40 breeder? There’s a big open swimming area, and a lot of caves on the bottom.

I plan to upgrade to at least a 4 ft tank within a year.

My biggest concern, really is the amount of nutrients that will be added due to their feeding requirements, but obviously I want them to be happy, as well.

I’ve seen many people say they’ve kept them in relatively small tanks, but I don’t know if that’s necessarily ethical.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[fishface NJ]

Your tank is too small for one let alone three. I have a 40B display with a sump that is 40B. It just not big enough for them to swim

 

[sp1187]

wait till you get the bigger tank.

 

[Adamantium]

Your tank is too small for one let alone three. I have a 40B display with a sump that is 40B. It just not big enough for them to swim

Yeah, that’s what I figured. Darn.

I really want a pretty group of fish that will shoal, but am not a fan of cardinals. I’m struggling to find anything else.

 

[Adamantium]

wait till you get the bigger tank.

Yeah, I figured as much. Thanks. Any suggestions for schooling fish that aren’t cardinals?

 

[sp1187]

Yeah, I figured as much. Thanks. Any suggestions for schooling fish that aren’t cardinals?

I've got 4 lyretails. they aren't a schooling fish.
every now and then they will get together when a specific flow pattern is running through the gyres.
my 4 blue/green chromis are always together.

 

[Adamantium]

I've got 4 lyretails. they aren't a schooling fish.
every now and then they will get together when a specific flow pattern is running through the gyres.
my 4 blue/green chromis are always together.

Good to know.

I’ve had terrrrible luck with chromis. They always seem to either get uronema, or bully each other until only one is left. Any other suggestions?

I’m just trying to find something to use the open swimming area in the tank? All my current inhabitants either stick to the rocks, or are bottom dwellers.

 

[Tcook]

How about a fairy wrasse. Also, from a 4ft tank owner, get a 6ft tank.

 

[Adamantium]

How about a fairy wrasse. Also, from a 4ft tank owner, get a 6ft tank.

Haha I’ll see what I can get the wife to agree to.

I already have a six line wrasse. Super peaceful, knock on wood, but wouldn’t that be problematic?

 

[sp1187]

none that are schooling/shoaling.
I have 5 swallowtail/lyretail damsels that are active swimmers.

 

[sp1187]

How about a fairy wrasse. Also, from a 4ft tank owner, get a 6ft tank.

Haha I’ll see what I can get the wife to agree to.

I already have a six line wrasse. Super peaceful, knock on wood, but wouldn’t that be problematic?

wait... if we are talking tank size, and if you can only sell the wife on the 4', go high. 150 Tall.
don't believe all the critics of them.

 

[Tcook]

Forgot about this one I just got. Lot of color. Always swimming around.

 

[Adamantium]

Forgot about this one I just got. Lot of color. Always swimming around.

Is that a damsel?

 

[Tcook]

Starcki damsel

 

[ca1ore]

To the original question, yes 40 is too small for larger pseudoanthias like lyretails. There are smaller speviaes that would fit, but they are trickier to keep.

 

[Adamantium]

To the original question, yes 40 is too small for larger pseudoanthias like lyretails. There are smaller speviaes that would fit, but they are trickier to keep.

Darn. Any suggestions on other colorful open area swimmers?

 

[joseph.timbs]

I know this is an old thread but for anyone else looking for small tank schooling type fish should look into firefish

 

[naterealbig]

I know this is an old thread but for anyone else looking for small tank schooling type fish should look into firefish

+1 on this.

Bought 20 Kupangs from NYaquatic (great vendor) about a year ago, and they are great. They don't technically school (even true schooling fish don't school in anything less than a 500 gallon) but they swim together, out in the open, and love coral as hiding spots. They add a ton of color and movement, and they would be suitable for a 40b.

 

[joseph.timbs]

+1 on this.

Bought 20 Kupangs from NYaquatic (great vendor) about a year ago, and they are great. They don't technically school (even true schooling fish don't school in anything less than a 500 gallon) but they swim together, out in the open, and love coral as hiding spots. They add a ton of color and movement, and they would be suitable for a 40b.

Yeah that’s the best you can hope for, ppl expect unified movement like on nat geo and it’s just not realistic in a hobbiest aquarium

 

[Zionas]

I’m not a fan of most Anthias but either way your tank’s too small for a trio, or even one. If you really want an Anthias, maybe a Sunburst / Fathead but they’re not your typical Anthias as in they don’t school. If your tank was 120+, as in at least a standard 4 x 2 x 2, maybe you could do a trio of 1M / 2F and I think that’s about the limit for most tanks. You don’t want so many specimens that a single male can’t control them with his amount of hormones, you don’t want a second male to emerge.

It’s tricky to establish a true school or shoal of most fish in captivity. In the wild, many species only group as juveniles, or are found in groups as a survival mechanism. They don’t like being around one another and upon closer inspection of individual specimens you will see wounds and torn fins and scales from infighting.

Even in a tank as big as Andrew Sandler’s, who keeps a large group of mixed Zebrasoma (Yellow and Purple, with a few aberrant Scopas, Sailfins and Black Tangs mixed in), many of the Yellows in his videos, you will see that they have incomplete fins from fighting with others of their kind.

A lot of Tangs swim in groups, but what you see as shoals are really just pairs / trios swimming together for survival and foraging.

Butterflies exhibit a range of social structures. Many exclusively form male / female pairs, others are more like the Tangs that form shoals in that a shoal is an aggregation of smaller units that stick together for safety and feeding.

Take Bangaii and Pajama Cardinals, many people want them because they have the reputation of being a schooling fish, but when they get older and are of breeding age, they exclusively mate in pairs. Odd ones out are at best, left alone, at worst, killed off.

And Chromis, it’s luck. “They will decide their own numbers, so always buy more than the number you want” seems to not be an uncommon sentiment.

I don’t consider most Anthias, with a few exceptions, to be individually attractive fish. For me, the criteria is that if I keep a fish singly, it has to be a species that’s individually appealing. Or, it should be a species that I have a reasonable chance of having in a pair or trio (while looking decent individually) if that means getting the most out of them.

Though not suitable for a 40 by any means, it seems a good number of people have success keeping the Hemitaurichthys (Pyramid Butterflies) in trios long term.