Are Nitrates really that important? Or is PO4 king?

[Reeferbadness]

I didn't test Nitrate for a while after adding refugiums to 2x 200g tanks. When I did, it was 0.00 - and my corals were def not happy. Phos was manageble at 0.02 - 0.10. I started trimming the chaeto way back and also dosing NeoNitrate. My corals immediately started to color up and growth was much higher. Clearly both are important but testing and adjusting is key.

 

[buruskeee]

I didn't test Nitrate for a while after adding refugiums to 2x 200g tanks. When I did, it was 0.00 - and my corals were def not happy. Phos was manageble at 0.02 - 0.10. I started trimming the chaeto way back and also dosing NeoNitrate. My corals immediately started to color up and growth was much higher. Clearly both are important but testing and adjusting is key.

But the question is, does it matter if it’s 0.1ppm or 10ppm? Or from what I’ve deduced , it seems as long as it’s not 0.00 then it isn’t a concern. It seems the range for PO4 matters and NO3 just needs to be over 0.

 

[HP Reef]

My Phosphates are 0.02 to 0.05. My nitrates have been undetectable for months on the Hanna checker.

I dose Amino Acids, AFR, and brightwells phosphate remover.

I feed 3x a day reef nutrition pellets. Every other day I dose phyto.

On Saturday I feed Oyster Feast, and Sunday I feed Mysis - in addition to the pellets.

My corals are growing nicely, showing good color, and encrusting.

 

[buruskeee]

My Phosphates are 0.02 to 0.05. My nitrates have been undetectable for months on the Hanna checker.

I dose Amino Acids, AFR, and brightwells phosphate remover.

I feed 3x a day reef nutrition pellets. Every other day I dose phyto.

On Saturday I feed Oyster Feast, and Sunday I feed Mysis - in addition to the pellets.

My corals are growing nicely, showing good color, and encrusting.

Safe to say you’re import and export of NO3 are about even and although your NO3 is undetectable, it’s probably on the fringe on just over absolute zero and not in a deficit?

 

[Lavey29]

My Phosphates are 0.02 to 0.05. My nitrates have been undetectable for months on the Hanna checker.

I dose Amino Acids, AFR, and brightwells phosphate remover.

I feed 3x a day reef nutrition pellets. Every other day I dose phyto.

On Saturday I feed Oyster Feast, and Sunday I feed Mysis - in addition to the pellets.

My corals are growing nicely, showing good color, and encrusting.

How old is your tank?

 

[Dan_P]

I have ridiculous growth in my fuge with minimal flow; not enough to move the chaeto at all. I have to remove a softball sized clump or more weekly. I attribute this mostly to lighting. I have a Tunze submersible fuge light under the chaeto and a hygger LED bar on top. My iron was a bit low on my last ICP-MS, but I do pay close attention to my trace using the reef moonshiners program.

Clever! Maybe surrounding with light has the same effect as tumbling under one light.

 

[Reefahholic]

SPS can adapt to very low nutrient levels, but there has to be “some” available or they will die. People that are testing zero on hobby grade test kits typically have some level of N or P on ICP. However, ULN is overrated and dangerous unless you’re feeding the corals with a bacteria driven method like ZEOvit or providing enough nutrition in a similar manner.

The number one killer of corals is low or depleted Phosphate IMO.

 

[jackson6745]

I would say phosphate is more important since corals will crap out faster with ultra low po4 faster than no3, but these days I want a healthy buffer zone for each. All of my mishaps in the past occurred when I became too busy to feed often and dropped nutrients. Phosphate in particular isn't this linear level in the tank unless you have a steady source of rotting organic matter i.e. old sand bad or old dirty rock. In a bare bottom tank It's pretty common to see a .1 or .2 drop in a single day depending on coral stock and growth. Nitrates will hold more stable IME but even then you can see considerable fluctuations in a fast growing high energy tank. Because of this I shoot for 10pmm no3 + and .1 po4 +. If these numbers get high I just let it come down on its own before I feed heavy or add coral food etc.

 

[SDchris]

The claim Lou presented in the video is that while corals can pull phosphorous out of solution in the water column, it is more efficient for them to consume it from particulate sources.

Considering corals have cilia, are covered in mucus that is sugar rich and high in phosphate, I'm not convinced that filtering bacteria from the water column is all that beneficial, leading to the next.......

Most tanks have large amounts of calcium carbonate rock/sand. Both abiotic and biotic processes associated with that rock and sand are competing for similar inorganic resources to that off corals; C, N, P and many others, manganese, fluoride........
How the filter (rock/sand) behaves can alter how the corals behave. So if I add anything, say like vodka, how do I know if it directly effected the coral or was secondary by first changing the way the filter behaved?

I could easily theorise that if the original phosphate problem was diffusion from sand/rock, that adding a carbon source might increase bacterial growth associated with the rock/sand and thus prevent further P diffusion. That would decrease the amount of P available to coral. Which is in opposition to the explanation in the video.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

….wish I could answer…my nitrates in all tanks are over 50, my phosphates are anywhere from .03 - .8 ..
I should be covered in algae but can’t seem to even grow chaeto ….
Following

You are probably low on either potassium or trace elements, iron in particular.

 

[buruskeee]

So if I add anything, say like vodka, how do I know if it directly effected the coral or was secondary by first changing the way the filter behaved?

Lou from Tropic Marin alleges that their form of carbon dosing (NP Bacto Balance) is different from simple carbon sources like vodka and sugars because it’s a long chain carbon rather than a short chain which every organism has access to.

 

[Reeferbadness]

My Phosphates are 0.02 to 0.05. My nitrates have been undetectable for months on the Hanna checker.

I dose Amino Acids, AFR, and brightwells phosphate remover.

I feed 3x a day reef nutrition pellets. Every other day I dose phyto.

On Saturday I feed Oyster Feast, and Sunday I feed Mysis - in addition to the pellets.

My corals are growing nicely, showing good color, and encrusting.

The Hanna checker is not very good at low end. They do have a Ultra LR Nitrate checker but it takes like 15 minutes per test with lots of steps. I use the Salifert test and can get at least a low positive in 3min and 30seconds.

 

[Doctorgori]

There’s mixed data on the negative effects of elevated phosphate and nitrate, and at what level they may kick in. I dont think we have a good general answer at the moment, and it may depend on factors we understand (different organisms may respond differently) and on some we do not (such as levels of some other factors).

This is the best answer ever: a polite way of saying: nobody knows what the h3ll they are taking about…. A legit question is do nitrates even matter above 1ppm

Dunning Krueger awards around the house

 

[jackson6745]

This is the best answer ever: a polite way of saying: nobody knows what the h3ll they are taking about…. A legit question is do nitrates even matter above 1ppm

Dunning Krueger awards around the house

In an SPS tank, there is a noticeable difference in corals from nitrates of 1ppm to a tank running 25-30ppm. In general the corals have more zoox populations. I’ve experienced this in my tanks and so many tanks that I’ve observed. Just something to think about.

 

[Doctorgori]

In an SPS tank, there is a noticeable difference in corals from nitrates of 1ppm to a tank running 25-30ppm. In general the corals have more zoox populations. I’ve experienced this in my tanks and so many tanks that I’ve observed. Just something to think about.

I absolutely believe you but that’s just it: the sample data on nitrate effects is all over the place

 

[SDchris]

Lou from Tropic Marin alleges that their form of carbon dosing (NP Bacto Balance) is different from simple carbon sources like vodka and sugars because it’s a long chain carbon rather than a short chain which every organism has access to.

Just on that point alone, I would probably say on the balance of probability that would have little effect on the outcome. But would need to know a little more as to why he thought that.

 

[GARRIGA]

Fixating on nitrates without expanding on nitrogen input leaves a lot of ambiguity. Could be that in high fed tanks the need to show nitrates becomes less relevant. In the end. Mostly anecdotal based purely on those reporting vs science based specific to aquarium conditions as ocean may provide clues but we don’t keep oceans. We keep slices of it to the best of our ability. Why I won’t be stuck on old dogma and test different parameters as best fits my style and limitations. Heavy in. Heavy out I believe what it’s called. Assuming I understand exactly what that means. Often much ambiguity since all have their own understanding and grasp then each reports as they see and all we are guaranteed is confusion for each to work out as there’s no universally accepted only way to do anything.

 

[HP Reef]

How old is your tank?

It’s been up 10 months now.

 

[HP Reef]

Safe to say you’re import and export of NO3 are about even and although your NO3 is undetectable, it’s probably on the fringe on just over absolute zero and not in a deficit?

That’s possible but it has been this way for 5 months or more. Only time I had any nitrates was maybe the first few months of the system.

 

[HP Reef]

That’s possible but it has been this way for 5 months or more. Only time I had any nitrates was maybe the first few months of the system.

It’s also why I use ME Amino, because Ive always gotten a 0.00 nitrate reading.