Best Parameters for Coralline

[Megability]

I’m starting a new tank from scratch and want a lot of coralline on my new dry Marcorocks I used, I’ve used 2 bottles of the Arc Helix and already see coralline starting but what are the best parameters to help it as much as possible?

I’ve read many articles and they say stuff like they want alkalinity 8-12 and pH between 7.8-8.2, but those are very wide ranges…

So, using those 2 parameters as the main ones do you think they like higher alkalinity and pH, my guess, or the lower end?

Or anything else I should focus on?

Thanks

 

[MaxTremors]

Calcium, alk, and magnesium all have to be in range, nitrates and phosphates not outrageously high, and most importantly a PH that is consistently 8.1 or higher.

Edit: also have to introduce live coralline and provide lighting.

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Here are the parameters that we typically recommend and pulled this list from our blog on coralline

• Nitrates <1.0 ppm.
• Phosphates <0.05 ppm
• pH values of 8.2-8.3.
• Alkalinity ~10 dKH.
• Calcium 415-425 ppm.
• Magnesium ~1,250 ppm.
• Potassium ~400 ppm.
• Total iodine ~0.06 ppm

 

[Megability]

Thank you @AlgaeBarn that is what I was assuming too, on the higher end of pH and alkalinity helps - only makes sense…

 

[Waynerock]

The best parameter is stability! Get everything where corals would be happy and keep it there!
coraline does seem overly sensitive to salinity and temp swings though

 

[AlgaeBarn]

Thank you @AlgaeBarn that is what I was assuming too, on the higher end of pH and alkalinity helps - only makes sense…

You're very welcome!

 

[Anxur]

Ecco i parametri che in genere consigliamo e abbiamo tratto questo elenco dal nostro blog su Coralline

• Nitrati <1,0 ppm.
• Fosfati <0,05 ppm
• Valori di pH 8,2-8,3.
• Alcalinità ~10 dKH.
• Calcio 415-425 ppm.
• Magnesio ~1.250 ppm.
• Potassio ~400 ppm.
• Iodio totale ~0,06 ppm

Which of these element have more influence?

 

[skey44]

Alkalinity is most important parameter to stabilize for calcification IMO. I prefer around 8dkh because that’s what my salt mixes at and it makes it easy to avoid alk swings with water changes.
Also be careful chasing ultra low nutrients as algae barn suggests. If phosphates or nitrates are actually zero or undetectable it can lead to imbalances with symptoms such as proliferation of dinoflagellates. For PO4 I’d recommend 0.04-0.1ppm and nitrates in a range from 3-10 ppm just don’t flirt with zero. Many reefers have success with higher nutrients. Many problems can come from being too low.
If your tank is stable and you introduce snails and corals with consistent alkalinity you will get coralline growth. It takes some time, but before too long you’ll be soaking flow pumps in vinegar every month or two to remove it.
Coralline algae is not something to “worry about” imo. If your tank is healthy and stable it will come whether you want it or not. Of course unless you don’t add anything like snails, crabs, or corals to your tank which will hitch hike the coralline in.

 

[GARRIGA]

Something I've not understood about coralline algae being an algae is it's need for low nutrients. You'd think it would crave higher nitrates and phosphates. One of those I get it because it's prescribed but don't get it because it seems illogical as far as it's biological.

 

[CHSUB]

Something I've not understood about coralline algae being an algae is it's need for low nutrients. You'd think it would crave higher nitrates and phosphates. One of those I get it because it's prescribed but don't get it because it seems illogical as far as it's biological.

High nutrients inhibit calcification. Very logical…

 

[GARRIGA]

High nutrients inhibit calcification. Very logical…

Not exactly, Richard Ross has had certain corals calcify at above 1 ppm po4 which is well beyond that quoted for coralline. Plus not all corals as delicate as SPS for which these figures seem more inline.

Do you have data to support that's the fact as it pertains specifically to coralline or generalizing based on what is assumed with SPS which best I recall seems to be based on one study of one specific coral. Could be wrong. Haven't looked at that in years.

Anecdotal isn't logical...

 

[CHSUB]

Not exactly, Richard Ross has had certain corals calcify at above 1 ppm po4 which is well beyond that quoted for coralline. Plus not all corals as delicate as SPS for which these figures seem more inline.

Do you have data to support that's the fact as it pertains specifically to coralline or generalizing based on what is assumed with SPS which best I recall seems to be based on one study of one specific coral. Could be wrong. Haven't looked at that in years.

Anecdotal isn't logical...

There are hundreds of studies that have long proven high inorganic nutrients inhibiting calcification. It’s a few dudes in the hobby who grow long captivated corals in higher nutrients. I believe the mechanism of depositing calcium is the same for corals and coralline, hence AlgaeBarn’s recommendations, which is far from undetected inorganic nutrients.

 

[GARRIGA]

There are hundreds of studies that have long proven high inorganic nutrients inhibiting calcification. It’s a few dudes in the hobby who grow long captivated corals in higher nutrients. I believe the mechanism of depositing calcium is the same for corals and coralline, hence AlgaeBarn’s recommendations, which is far from undetected inorganic nutrients.

But what exact studies performed on coralline? Can't ignore Richard Ross, either. His real tank deviates often from these studies. Plus aren't most of these studies on acidification or are they specific to po4 and other nutrients such as nitrates? Seen others having success with nitrates levels well beyond quoted. WWC runs that at 20-25 ppm. Well above here being quoted for coralline.

Let me ask again. What specific science do we have to confirm coralline require these low levels as quoted?

 

[CHSUB]

But what exact studies performed on coralline? Can't ignore Richard Ross, either. His real tank deviates often from these studies. Plus aren't most of these studies on acidification or are they specific to po4 and other nutrients such as nitrates? Seen others having success with nitrates levels well beyond quoted. WWC runs that at 20-25 ppm. Well above here being quoted for coralline.

Let me ask again. What specific science do we have to confirm coralline require these low levels as quoted?

Yes. I’m not sure about coralline specifically and I don’t discount success with higher nutrients levels, too many examples of beautiful tanks. There is some mechanism specific to po4 that inhibits calculation. I have observed it myself with stone corals that appeared healthy with extremely slow growth, this was many years ago before higher resolution po4 testing. Higher nutrients levels are not a new phenomenon that people suddenly discovered recently, I have books from Sprung and Borneman from 1994 and 2000 that specifically speak to higher nutrients befitting coral growth.

Borneman in 2000, “There seems to be a bit of confusion among those who have read about the results of nitrogen-enriched water on coral growth. Some studies have shown that nitrate enhancement has improved the growth of stony corals…..the potential for misunderstanding this information is substantial….there are many studies showing that nitrate enhancement significantly reduces calcification, photosynthesis, and respiration rates, and even reduces skeletal density (Hoegh-Goldberg 97; Kinsey and Davies 79; Johannesburg 72; Stambler 91; Dubinsky 90, Yamashiro 92, Stimson and Kinzie 92; and others”

 

[GARRIGA]

Yes. I’m not sure about coralline specifically and I don’t discount success with higher nutrients levels, too many examples of beautiful tanks. There is some mechanism specific to po4 that inhibits calculation. I have observed it myself with stone corals that appeared healthy with extremely slow growth, this was many years ago before higher resolution po4 testing. Higher nutrients levels are not a new phenomenon that people suddenly discovered recently, I have books from Sprung and Borneman from 1994 and 2000 that specifically speak to higher nutrients befitting coral growth.

Borneman in 2000, “There seems to be a bit of confusion among those who have read about the results of nitrogen-enriched water on coral growth. Some studies have shown that nitrate enhancement has improved the growth of stony corals…..the potential for misunderstanding this information is substantial….there are many studies showing that nitrate enhancement significantly reduces calcification, photosynthesis, and respiration rates, and even reduces skeletal density (Hoegh-Goldberg 97; Kinsey and Davies 79; Johannesburg 72; Stambler 91; Dubinsky 90, Yamashiro 92, Stimson and Kinzie 92; and others”

That's the point I'm trying to clarify. These often quoted parameters seem better suited to specific SPS vs coralline in general. Plus who maintains 1 ppm nitrates?

To me seems odd that an algae anything would have same restrictions as the most phosphate sensitive acropora. Know certain macroalgae calcify yet haven't seen evidence they require low levels of nutrients. Grew Pom Pom (they have a calcium structure) with elevated levels which apparently it was able to bottom out. Didn't test but know my tank enough that absent carbon dosing the nitrates and phosphates get well beyond the comfort zone for SPS yet once tested post months of use both nutrients bottomed out.

Been searching (my skills not the best and access limited) for specific mechanism as it relates to coralline. Belief has been on my part that perhaps getting that established would keep nutrients at bay although being unsuccessful at promoting it that's still just an assumption. You'd think they'd serve a purpose on the reef vs just building structure.

 

[CHSUB]

WWC runs that at 20-25 ppm

I spoke to WWC a few months ago about a Goni that I questioned about linage because of lack of polyp extension. My tank has undetectable no3 and they believed the coral was shocked because it was growing in 5 ppm no3. The coral recovered in days without me adjusting my no3. Here is a picture, it’s the pink Goni.

 

[GARRIGA]

I spoke to WWC a few months ago about a Goni that I questioned about linage because of lack of polyp extension. My tank has undetectable no3 and they believed the coral was shocked because it was growing in 5 ppm no3. The coral recovered in days without me adjusting my no3. Here is a picture, it’s the pink Goni.

I grasp why nitrates are monitored since ammonium can't be readily quantified yet the reefing community is now coming to grasp with the reality that corals might best benefit from ammonium vs nitrates. Therefore, two tanks with identical nitrate levels might have considerably different ammonium addition and consumption. Hard to quantify the reason quoted based on shock being the actual concern considering what we are now starting to realize. Something the FW planted community has understood for decades. Turns out corals likely more like plants than animals in that aspect.

Regardless, seen several videos by WWC where they specifically state nitrates at 20 ppm or higher. Are you pointing out that the 5 ppm more likely than 20?

 

[skey44]

There are hundreds of studies that have long proven high inorganic nutrients inhibiting calcification. It’s a few dudes in the hobby who grow long captivated corals in higher nutrients. I believe the mechanism of depositing calcium is the same for corals and coralline, hence AlgaeBarn’s recommendations, which is far from undetected inorganic nutrients.

I would not agree nitrates less than 1ppm is “far from undetected.” In my tank nitrates less than 1 would be undetectable in 24 hours or less. I struggle to maintain detectable nitrates and prefer 3-10pm nitrates versus less than 1.

I will maintain that coralline algae is not that sensitive or hard to grow compared to our corals. If your corals can grow your coralline will grow well.

 

[CHSUB]

Regardless, seen several videos by WWC where they specifically state nitrates at 20 ppm or higher. Are you pointing out that the 5 ppm more likely than 20?

Yes. I was highlighting 5 ppm, only what WWC told me.

 

[CHSUB]

I would not agree nitrates less than 1ppm is “far from undetected.” In my tank nitrates less than 1 would be undetectable in 24 hours or less. I struggle to maintain detectable nitrates and prefer 3-10pm nitrates versus less than 1.

I will maintain that coralline algae is not that sensitive or hard to grow compared to our corals. If your corals can grow your coralline will grow well.

Undetectable with hobby testing resolution is greater than 100 x that of ocean levels of no3 and infinitely higher than 0; which doesn’t exist in a reef aquarium with fed fish ime.

Imo coralline and corals require similar husbandry.