Bolus dosing

[Garf]

there are no magic crystals?

There is one exception, dilithium, that's true because I've seen it on the Tele.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

But both IR and alk titration of the FM product by an expert analytical chemist who showed me the results demonstrate it is sodium bicarbonate and not any sort of delayed chemical.

And a follow up question. Can the delayed chemical be added in any other bottle that is recommended in the bolus dosing method?

 

[204Reef]

There is one exception, dilithium, that's true because I've seen it on the Tele.

Yeah but you need to be careful not to accidentally buy trilithium instead. That stuff can implode a star or make the planet uninhabitable for human life... but maybe it will increase coral calcification rates while doing so?

 

[Garf]

Calcification as a full process consumes carbonate to form calcium carbonate. Removing carbonate from seawater lowers alk and also lowers pH, yes.

I suppose any reduction in calcification would be masked by the Alkalinity anomaly and another invented process. The destabilisation of alkalinity upon initiating bolus (repairing the buffer system). Is this folk just adding less Alk than they think and having alkalinity wobbles for a while, it's not been fully described as far as I know.

 

[SDchris]

it may appear you are dosing 2 dKH, it's actually 1 dKH because it comes back throughout the day because of seawater combining rock surface and organics in the aquarium.

So he's saying it slowly comes back. Isn't that exactly the same thing as using a dosing pump? So Bolus is not really Bolus, it's the slow addition of carbonates! I can only assume in this case the bicarb comes back into solution with a covalently bonded smilie face, so as not to 'disrupt' as Doug would say.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

And a follow up question. Can the delayed chemical be added in any other bottle that is recommended in the bolus dosing method?

Aside from the peptide, which some may have this effect and many won’t, I’m not aware of anything anyone doses for alk which is delayed, except acetate and formate. Amino acid formulations may add alk (or deplete it) depending on which amino acids are present and what the pH is. Some of that alk could be hidden until they are metabolized.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So he's saying it slowly comes back. Isn't that exactly the same thing as using a dosing pump? So Bolus is not really Bolus, it's the slow addition of carbonates! I can only assume in this case the bicarb comes back into solution with a covalently bonded smilie face, so as not to 'disrupt' as Doug would say.

Yes, even if it does what he suggests, it is just a poor man’s dosing pump and thus should not have any benefit over slow dosing.

 

[ingchr1]

This is what happens when interviewers don’t ask hard questions and just lob softballs the whole time

I have lost so much respect for so many of these people. That was not an interview, it was an infomercial. Read the video description... WOW!

CoralVue is the US distributor of Fauna Marin. Would you expect an interview that would damage that relationship?

All Brands | CoralVue

CoralVue is one of North America's largest distributors of marine and freshwater aquaria products and represents a wide range of industry-leading brands including Reef Octopus, Abyzz, Fauna Marin, IceCap, and more. CoralVue also manufactures the HYDROS Control, which is the fastest-growing...

www.coralvue.com

This video posted yesterday from Triton Applied Reef Bioscience seems to be a direct counter to bolus.

 

[Hypnotize]

CoralVue is the US distributor of Fauna Marin. Would you expect an interview that would damage that relationship?

All Brands | CoralVue

CoralVue is one of North America's largest distributors of marine and freshwater aquaria products and represents a wide range of industry-leading brands including Reef Octopus, Abyzz, Fauna Marin, IceCap, and more. CoralVue also manufactures the HYDROS Control, which is the fastest-growing...

www.coralvue.com

This video posted yesterday from Triton Applied Reef Bioscience seems to be a direct counter to bolus.

Yeah but that Triton said you could Bolus with the Triton system and every other system seems a bit dangerous to me especially when soda ash oder sodium hydroxide based systems are used.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yeah but that Triton said you could Bolus with the Triton system and every other system seems a bit dangerous to me especially when soda ash oder sodium hydroxide based systems are used.

I do agree that if one wants to bolus dose for any reason, and the amount is over about 1.5 dKH, it would be best to use bicarbonate (or something like AFR), or else the pH spike could be an issue.

A 1.5 dKH bolus dose of carbonate will produce an alk spike of about 0.3 to 0.4 pH units (less at higher starting alk and pH, more are lower starting alk and pH). Whether that's an issue or not, I am not sure, but it could be. Hydroxide would be about twice that effect.

 

[twentyleagues]

Yeah but that Triton said you could Bolus with the Triton system and every other system seems a bit dangerous to me especially when soda ash oder sodium hydroxide based systems are used.

I agree and this was my reasoning. For years I have read/been told you should not increase your dkh by more than 1.4 at any one time. I had in the past done so by accident and saw immediate issues. First I saw some precipitation and then the next day I had a few burned tips/rtn on some acros, lps looked sad. that was probably in the realm of 2dkh. So any system that actually delivers the 1.4+ dkh at once is probably not good for the corals. I am not a scientist so maybe other possibilities exist that can/will prevent what I had seen happen.

 

[Garf]

I agree and this was my reasoning. For years I have read/been told you should not increase your dkh by more than 1.4 at any one time. I had in the past done so by accident and saw immediate issues. First I saw some precipitation and then the next day I had a few burned tips/rtn on some acros, lps looked sad. that was probably in the realm of 2dkh. So any system that actually delivers the 1.4+ dkh at once is probably not good for the corals. I am not a scientist so maybe other possibilities exist that can/will prevent what I had seen happen.

Perhaps fortunately, those dosing excess of say 1.5DKH daily using Faunas calculator are really dosing far less than that, so all good from that perspective, lol.

 

[BeanAnimal]

CoralVue is the US distributor of Fauna Marin. Would you expect an interview that would damage that relationship?

Of course not, but that is not an excuse for drooling over junk science and giving it a platform. It may be their ‘duty’ to their vendor but like I said, it gives me significant reason to respect these folks even less. Not that they care what I think.

The whole lot of them teaming up to peddle this crap is organized disinformation in the name of various forms of monetization. It has nothing to do with advancing the science or understanding of this hobby. That may be their right and prerogative, but it is unfortunate nonetheless.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Of course not, but that is not an excuse for drooling over junk science and giving it a platform. It may be their ‘duty’ to their vendor but like I said, it gives me significant reason to respect these folks even less. Not that they care what I think.

The whole lot of them teaming up to peddle this crap is organized disinformation in the name of various forms of monetization. It has nothing to do with advancing the science or understanding of this hobby. That may be their right and prerogative, but it is unfortunate nonetheless.

I've made this point over and over again, that we as hobbyists allow for these companies to control the hobby and dictate (through marketing and shills) what we think we need.

A lot of that stems from our (hobbyists) ignorance and taking their messaging at face value. Sometimes we have to tilt our heads, squint our eyes and challenge what they say. In this case I'm grateful for the RHF's that can convert their claims into plain talk.

 

[rtparty]

CoralVue is the US distributor of Fauna Marin. Would you expect an interview that would damage that relationship?

All Brands | CoralVue

CoralVue is one of North America's largest distributors of marine and freshwater aquaria products and represents a wide range of industry-leading brands including Reef Octopus, Abyzz, Fauna Marin, IceCap, and more. CoralVue also manufactures the HYDROS Control, which is the fastest-growing...

www.coralvue.com

Nope, but I do expect just a little integrity by not peddling junk science from some salesmen that won’t even converse with actual scientists.

CV can distribute FM products just fine without peddling and platforming stuff like this. If peddling made up science is the only way to promote their stuff, one should honestly question why that is

 

[Garf]

Ok, I'm gonna throw something else out there in the name of balance. Is there no chance at all that a reduction in calcification during daylight hours actually encourages "better" colouration and disease resistance in corals as described by Doug and Claude back at the start of this saga? Don't shout, lol.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Ok, I'm gonna throw something else out there in the name of balance. Is there no chance at all that a reduction in calcification during daylight hours actually encourages "better" colouration and disease resistance in corals as described by Doug and Claude back at the start of this saga? Don't shout, lol.

It is a fair and reasonable question. "Is it possible that energy collected could be diverted to other biological process if it is not being used to drive calcification?"

Energy allocation in a reef coral under varying resource availability - Marine Biology

An organism’s pattern of resource allocation to reproduction and growth over time critically impacts on its lifetime reproductive success. During times of low resource availability, there are two fundamental, mutually exclusive strategies of energy investment: maintenance of somatic tissues to...

link.springer.com

The issue, as is with the rest of this is that it is presented as known fact with mechanisms to explain it that have not actually been proven, let alone appear to make sense. The (their) proof is all intertwined with the rest of their scientific house of cards.

Their idea of "peer reviewed" science is sycophantic consensus "it works I have better growth or polyp extension" from the members of the...

Anyway....

Not only that, but it is tied to the hip of "this only works with FM products".

 

[twentyleagues]

Perhaps fortunately, those dosing excess of say 1.5DKH daily using Faunas calculator are really dosing far less than that, so all good from that perspective, lol.

I wonder what will happen when someone does need to actually dose 2 dkh/day? I dont even know if that dose is possibly needed. With a 120g full of euphylia and a 125g with a lot of sticks and caps I still was below that. Although I did end up adding a calcium reactor before I got those levels of 2 part dosing switching to the reactor and kalk via ato. It was so long ago and my memory is fuzzy at best on what I actually did do.

 

[elysics]

I wonder what will happen when someone does need to actually dose 2 dkh/day? I dont even know if that dose is possibly needed. With a 120g full of euphylia and a 125g with a lot of sticks and caps I still was below that. Although I did end up adding a calcium reactor before I got those levels of 2 part dosing switching to the reactor and kalk via ato. It was so long ago and my memory is fuzzy at best on what I actually did do.

It's more pronounced with smaller tanks actually. Larger tanks tend to be taller than smaller ones, but growth doesn't scale with tank height, more with lighting area. Good old square-cube law. So larger tanks tend to "waste" a lot more water volume on something other than coral. Especially if the larger tank affords a coral collector the luxury of having a negative spaces design rather than covering every last bit of area with coral.

At the peak of my tanks progression so far it was somewhere around 3.8dKH/day i think

 

[twentyleagues]

It's more pronounced with smaller tanks actually. Larger tanks tend to be taller than smaller ones, but growth doesn't scale with tank height, more with lighting area. Good old square-cube law. So larger tanks tend to "waste" a lot more water volume on something other than coral. Especially if the larger tank affords a coral collector the luxury of having a negative spaces design rather than covering every last bit of area with coral.

At the peak of my tanks progression so far it was somewhere around 3.8dKH/day i think

Wow thats a lot. Like I said I may not be remembering it correctly. Like I said I had a calcium reactor set up too so maybe I am just remembering what I needed to dose to keep up.