Carbon Dosing/Bio balls/ High NO3/PO4

[Kay 2024]

Hi Everyone,

I'd really appreciate answers to a couple of questions that I have please, if someone could explain things in a simple way, even better!

Can adding too much/over dosing products like Bacto balance/ Elimin-NP actually raise NO3 & PO4?

Can adding too many Bio balls/Blocks (Maxspect) actually keep NO3 high by ways of Nitrite fluctuations?

How can I help/stop Nitrite fluctuations & do they effect NO3 levels, if so how?

Given my questions - am currently experiencing high NO3 66.3 & PO4 0.17, I’ve been using TM BB & Elimin-NP, I know carbon dosing takes a while to get going but am getting nervous with my high numbers, so have been doing consecutive 60L WC to try and get a hold of things.

Tank - 300L - Bare bottom, been set up for 13 months, tank transfer so rock, coral, fish are years with me. Mainly LPS & Zoas, few Sps. Quite a large fish load.

Thank you in advance, your time is appreciated.

 

[unchainedcoot]

Hi Everyone,

I'd really appreciate answers to a couple of questions that I have please, if someone could explain things in a simple way, even better!

Can adding too much/over dosing products like Bacto balance/ Elimin-NP actually raise NO3 & PO4?

Can adding too many Bio balls/Blocks (Maxspect) actually keep NO3 high by ways of Nitrite fluctuations?

How can I help/stop Nitrite fluctuations & do they effect NO3 levels, if so how?

Given my questions - am currently experiencing high NO3 66.3 & PO4 0.17, I’ve been using TM BB & Elimin-NP, I know carbon dosing takes a while to get going but am getting nervous with my high numbers, so have been doing consecutive 60L WC to try and get a hold of things.

Tank - 300L - Bare bottom, been set up for 13 months, tank transfer so rock, coral, fish are years with me. Mainly LPS & Zoas, few Sps. Quite a large fish load.

Thank you in advance, your time is appreciated.

So I’m currently using NP BB. From what I’ve read of it and how I’ve been using it is to maintain desired nutrient levels so I’d put this product on the shelf temporarily. I’ve never used elimi-np (I have used Red Sea NO3-PO4 X) but my understanding is that it’s a form of carbon dosing so this is probably the one you want to be focused on.

How much are you currently dosing of each and how long have you been dosing? Have you been getting cloudy water at all?

 

[unchainedcoot]

Though reading there guidelines i might have steered you wrong with shelving the NP BB

 

[Kay 2024]

I've switched from BB to Elimin-NP as BB raised my PO4 & NO3 - as you stated it should balance things, however am now dosing the max recommended by TM - but its not putting a dent in it.

1.5mls = 300L tank
No cloudy water.

Haven't got any algae issues at present, thanks for your reply!

 

[unchainedcoot]

I've switched from BB to Elimin-NP as BB raised my PO4 & NO3 - as you stated it should balance things, however am now dosing the max recommended by TM - but its not putting a dent in it.

1.5mls = 300L tank
No cloudy water.

Haven't got any algae issues at present, thanks for your reply!

I know in general people seem to struggle getting nitrates down with carbon dosing. Seems to do a fabulous job with phosphates but nitrates seem delayed in their reduction to carbon dosing. There are some threads around here about experiments people have ran using different carbon sources (ethanol vs vinegar I believe) and how the nitrate reduction differs. TM also claims their carbon dosing uses longer chain polymers so where this would fall in regards to reduction rate I have no clue. I’ve reached out to TM tech support before and they’ve been fairly prompt with replies.

If you stick with the elimi-np and water changes just be careful you don’t bottom out the PO4

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can adding too many Bio balls/Blocks (Maxspect) actually keep NO3 high by ways of Nitrite fluctuations?

I’m not sure what exactly the rationale for that is, but the answer is no.

There may be other reasons you do not want them and raising nitrate could be one of them. But it has nothing to do with nitrite fluctuations.

I’d suggest upping the organic dose.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I know in general people seem to struggle getting nitrates down with carbon dosing. Seems to do a fabulous job with phosphates but nitrates seem delayed in their reduction to carbon dosing.

I don’t agree with that. Most often, organic carbon dosing has a bigger effect on nitrate than phosphate for at least three well understood reasons.

1. Organism growth uses much more N than P.

2. Denitrification uses nitrate and not phosphate.

3. Phosphate is often propped up by release of phosphate from rock and sand when you try to lower it.

 

[unchainedcoot]

I don’t agree with that. Most often, organic carbon dosing has a bigger effect on nitrate than phosphate for at least three well understood reasons.

1. Organism growth uses much more N than P.

2. Denitrification uses nitrate and not phosphate.

3. Phosphate is often propped up by release of phosphate from rock and sand when you try to lower it.

My mistake. I obviously misread/misinterpreted the plots I saw

 

[Kay 2024]

I’m not sure what exactly the rationale for that is, but the answer is no.

There may be other reasons you do not want them and raising nitrate could be one of them. But it has nothing to do with nitrite fluctuations.

I’d suggest upping the organic dose.

Thank-you - it was suggested that Nitrite flucuations could be the reason for my PO4 & NO3 going up & not down as I had no idea of that, thought I'd ask so I do know, Am a bit worried about overdosing the Elimin -NP , am not going to increase by a massive amount, but where would you reccommed too much for this product?
really appreciate your time!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank-you - it was suggested that Nitrite flucuations could be the reason for my PO4 & NO3 going up & not down as I had no idea of that, thought I'd ask so I do know, Am a bit worried about overdosing the Elimin -NP , am not going to increase by a massive amount, but where would you reccommed too much for this product?
really appreciate your time!

The presence of nitrite can result in a false high reading for nitrate with a nitrate test kit. Perhaps that was the root of the statements you saw.

I’m not a fan of dosing unknown chemicals, like elimi NP, but I doubt more is a concern.