Carbon Limited VS Carbon Balanced - Ugly Stage

[BeanAnimal]

As it implies non-nitrate nitrogen compounds it’s a good word to describe all forms of Nitrogen excluding Nitrate. (Ex. Ammonia, urea etc…)

The term “non-nitrate nitrogen compounds” might sound like a “good word” to you, but as I already said, it is broad and ambiguous and only serves to confuse matters. It feels more like a forced attempt at sounding scientific and informed -- and fitting to the analogy -- an excuse to bring in more important sounding but irrelevant terms such as "urea".

Non-nitrate nitrogen compounds it’s what fuels algae growth and per effect the zooxanthellae in coral.

You are back to gross oversimplifications of complex relationships. Nitrogen in all its forms can fuel growth. So again, what is the mechanism to qualify, quantify and control these compounds?

Are you going to move beyond vague terminology and deflections and start defining what you’re actually testing and observing, or just keep digging a deeper hole?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

N2 is present in substantial quantities but does not provide N to any algae.

 

[sixty_reefer]

N2 is present in substantial quantities but does not provide N to any algae.

Correct although some types phytoplankton can use it as N. But not algae (directly)
Would you say that all the other ones don’t feed algae and coral? Directly and indirectly?

Edit:
Also not really sure on why you bringing it up as N2 can’t be used by algae or coral directly, to my knowledge just some types of phytoplankton can use it, if they were to be present, then N2 would become a indirect way to feed the algae as ammonia would be one of the byproducts from the nitrogen fixation by certain Cyanobacteria species.
Therefore not a nutrient for the specific organisms in question, if we we’re talking about Cyanobacteria then it would fall under the classification of nutrient, with the ability to feed other organism indirectly.
It will fall in the category of Non-nitrate nitrogen compounds, just not sure how relevant it is for this conversation.

 

[BeanAnimal]

...Also not really sure on why you bringing it up as N2 can’t be used by algae or coral directly,

Randy was kindly pointing out yet another reason why “non-nitrate nitrogen” fails for the purpose it was coined. It is a ridiculous term.

Nitrogen fixation by certain Cyanobacteria is entirely off-topic. As for the rest of your post and your “knowledge”—please put Google down before you break something. This is getting ridiculous.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Randy was kindly pointing out yet another reason why “non-nitrate nitrogen” fails for the purpose it was coined. It is a ridiculous term.

Nitrogen fixation by certain Cyanobacteria is entirely off-topic. As for the rest of your post and your “knowledge”—please put Google down before you break something. This is getting ridiculous.

I believe that he was pointing out that algae cannot use N2 directly.
I agreed and just added that in the presence of certain types of phytoplankton N2 could potentially become indirectly a biological pathway to fuel algae growth.
I may also add that Cyanobacteria N2 fixation is not a primarily process as it requires expending energy similar to why algae will prefer ammonia to Nitrate.

If you had to google that one is absolutely fine, at least you taking some interest in some of the biological pathways that happen in reef aquaria.
Particular organic nutrients are also Non-nitrate nitrogen compounds that don’t feed algae directly. It’s an indirect pathway as a result of decomposition.

In this thread I’m experimenting with biological pathways that can happen in reef aquaria that are usually limited by organic carbon.
Some of those pathways could be as simple as single cell zooplankton that preys on the increased bacteria.

Some of those biologic pathways also include microscopic pods, that can prey on the vast numbers of bacteria and single cell zooplankton (Protozoa)

Another aspects I intend to observe is how this increase in bacteria will affect the rock scape and coral that is believed to feed on large amounts of bacteria to be able to sustain energy. Such as the baby dendronephthya that is on the small rock.

 

[CHSUB]

Are you sure it’s dendronephthy? If it is you should change the entire scope of this thread to keep it alive and growing.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Are you sure it’s dendronephthy?

no, it is difficult at this time for me to differentiate between scleronephthya and dendronephthya.
The vibrant colours indicate one of the two.

If it is you should change the entire scope of this thread to keep it alive and growing.

How so? A environment with multiple bacterial and zooplankton pathways should increase their survival.

 

[CHSUB]

The term “non-nitrate nitrogen compounds” might sound like a “good word” to you, but as I already said, it is broad and ambiguous and only serves to confuse matters. It feels more like a forced attempt at sounding scientific and informed -- and fitting to the analogy -- an excuse to bring in more important sounding but irrelevant terms such as "urea".



You are back to gross oversimplifications of complex relationships. Nitrogen in all its forms can fuel growth. So again, what is the mechanism to qualify, quantify and control these compounds?

Are you going to move beyond vague terminology and deflections and start defining what you’re actually testing and observing, or just keep digging a deeper hole?

I like his term, “non-nitrate nitrogen compounds”…. It reminds me of mirepoix, a term used in cookery that explains carrots, onions, and celery prep; for use in a specific way and for an exact purpose. Imo, the hobby has recently focused to much on no3 when in reality nitrogen is in usable abundance in a reef environment. I would add “usable” and make it “usable non-nitrate nitrogen compounds” for the win.

 

[CHSUB]

How so? A environment with multiple bacterial and zooplankton pathways should increase their survival.

Interesting if you can keep it alive, and the exact reason why?

 

[sixty_reefer]

I like his term, “non-nitrate nitrogen compounds”…. It reminds me of mirepoix, a term used in cookery that explains carrots, onions, and celery prep; for use in a specific way and for an exact purpose. Imo, the hobby has recently focused to much on no3 when in reality nitrogen is in usable abundance in a reef environment. I would add “usable” and make it “usable non-nitrate nitrogen compounds” for the win.

I like how complete it makes

 

[sixty_reefer]

Interesting if you can keep it alive, and the exact reason why?

Nitrogen assimilation (anabolism) by bacteria

@taricha, @Dan_P How could I identify the above? I’ve tried a few things in the past and they really haven’t worked out well although this time around is starting to look that it may be a strong evidence of the existence of anabolism in a aquarium filtration if presented with different types...

www.reef2reef.com

I’m playing with a different type of organic carbon that may promote anabolism. The result it’s been what I can only describe it as a floc.
Have ever heard of biofloc systems in culturing fish and shrimp?
I’m doing the same with the adaptation to sustain a reef environment, this translates to having detectable Nitrates and phosphate. The reason I say this is mainly as In biofloc culture systems they don’t really need to be detectable as they don’t keep photosynthetic organisms in their tanks.
The floc consists of pelagic bacteria, single cell zooplankton and rotifers, some copepods can only be seen under the microscope (image below).

Some of the pelagic Protozoa under the microscope




This much biodiversity being established before lights were added should in theory diminish the ugly stage by having several biological pathways competing for “usable” Non-nitrate nitrogen compounds in the system.

I’ve had a short success in keeping a crinoid fed with this method, but lost it to a parameter shoc wile adding silica. I learned that in the worst way, that crinoids are very sensitive to any parameter change, with minimal changes in the residual nitrate also affecting them.
Not all is lost as I still have a limb from that same crinoid regenerating a new mouth and body in the tank 19 days past the incident, most likely due to the abundance of several nutrient rich microscopic life.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I believe that he was pointing out that algae cannot use N2 directly.

The context being your failed terminology "non-nitrate nitrogen" not holding up. But like everything else here, instead of addressing the facts presented, you trying to take us down a new path. You even somebody that took the bait and is giving this silliness cover.

...If you had to google that one is absolutely fine...

Nice try to avoid directly talking to the criticism of what you are saying.

Please stop drifting and address the numerous criticisms and points that have been made.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The context being your failed terminology "non-nitrate nitrogen" not holding up. But like everything else here, instead of addressing the facts presented, you trying to take us down a new path. You even somebody that took the bait and is giving this silliness cover.


Nice try to avoid directly talking to the criticism of what you are saying.

Please stop drifting and address the numerous criticisms and points that have been made.

Your interaction is a little repetitive and with no actual question or value. Try and formulate it as a question and if I know the answer I will try and answer to the best of my abilities.