Charles Delbeek (N:P, Alk… )

[PBar]

Many thanks Randy!
I was a bit surprised that Charles ended up also using Ratio for the analysis although the conclusion was pretty much linked to phosphate levels.

I always stress that ratios (instead of range) are a problem itself once the numbers are close to the margin of error of the test itself. There, you can have things shooting to everywhere

The alk part is not clear the conclusion yet… safer to keep higher alk (?)

 

[sixty_reefer]

the ratios could just be coincidence, from looking at those charts it seems that they only started to encounter coral problems as stability got lost.

 

[CHSUB]

Imo, he is not suggesting targeting ratios. Being a follower of his advice, I interpreted that different organisms use N and P at different ratios. When N is higher, corals will have more zooxanthellae, experience higher growth rates and will require more P, otherwise they suffer. Nothing to do with a ratio only available P, high or low. Lower nutrients, less zooxanthellae corals are healthier, denser and “in control”; his words and I agree.

 

[Billyreef-ita]

I agree I think he was focussing more on the fact that if N is increasing, P has to follow in order to avoid problems (and this being captured by the ratio, if they both raise the ratio remains constant).

Needless to say this is valid up to a certain point, with N and P exceptionally high, even with the ideal 50 ratio, you have a problem

 

[rishma]

if phosphate is at good value, say 0.1 ppm, and nitrate is high, say 100ppm…

Are corals unhealthy because nitrate is really high or because of some imbalance in the ratio?

The fundamental issue I don’t understand regarding a ratio…if N or P were limiting, wouldn’t it approach zero? Then the corals would suffer due to that limitation, not some ratio.

 

[CHSUB]

if phosphate is at good value, say 0.1 ppm, and nitrate is high, say 100ppm…

Are corals unhealthy because nitrate is really high or because of some imbalance in the ratio?

The fundamental issue I don’t understand regarding a ratio…if N or P were limiting, wouldn’t it approach zero? Then the corals would suffer due to that limitation, not some ratio.

In the video, one example had high No3 and he noted it was too high by itself. Makes sense if you follow his philosophy.

 

[areefer01]

Hopefully hobbyist know who Mr. Delbeek is. If not he is the Curator of Aquarium Projects - Steinhart Aquarium, California Academy of Sciences. Steinhart is a tick over 200,000 gallons. As he talks about data it is what they collect or collaborate with other curators of public aquariums.

 

[rishma]

In the video, one example had high No3 and he noted it was too high by itself. Makes sense if you follow his philosophy.

I understand your first sentence. I don’t understand the second sentence. Maybe I don’t understand the philosophy or how that answers my question.

Hopefully hobbyist know who Mr. Delbeek is. If not he is the Curator of Aquarium Projects - Steinhart Aquarium, California Academy of Sciences. Steinhart is a tick over 200,000 gallons. As he talks about data it is what they collect or collaborate with other curators of public aquariums.

Oh goodness, I didn’t even think of that. Back when people read reef books everyone would have know who he is

 

[rishma]

Imo, he is not suggesting targeting ratios. Being a follower of his advice, I interpreted that different organisms use N and P at different ratios. When N is higher, corals will have more zooxanthellae, experience higher growth rates and will require more P, otherwise they suffer. Nothing to do with a ratio only available P, high or low. Lower nutrients, less zooxanthellae corals are healthier, denser and “in control”; his words and I agree.

Your explanation makes sense to me but it’s not how I interpreted his video. He seemed very anchored on the molar ratio vs the individual levels.

I certainly am in not position to debate the man, but I feel like this video is about to spawn hundreds of threads of people asking how to hit the delbeek molar ratio.

 

[areefer01]

Oh goodness, I didn’t even think of that. Back when people read reef books everyone would have know who he is

I sure didn't mean any disrespect by it. I was only trying to provide some context and scale

 

[CHSUB]

Your explanation makes sense to me but it’s not how I interpreted his video. He seemed very anchored on the molar ratio vs the individual levels.

I certainly am in not position to debate the man, but I feel like this video is about to spawn hundreds of threads of people asking how to hit the delbeek molar ratio.

From following his advice for many years, I believe he advocates natural levels for all nutrients. At least that is my interpretation?

 

[rishma]

I sure didn't mean any disrespect by it. I was only trying to provide some context and scale

Of course! I am glad you posted that. I actually think the vast majority won’t know who he is. Times have changed. He doesn’t have a YouTube channel

 

[rishma]

From following his advice for many years, I believe he advocates natural levels for all nutrients. At least that is my interpretation?

I’m honestly not sure what Delbeek advocates, but I know you and I do not agree on this topic. While I would like to recreate ocean reef conditions in my tank, I do not think targeting ocean level nutrients is the most likely path to success for most reefers.

But we need not have that debate again