Clown stopped eating, more lethargic, shakes head and yawns

[Dr. D]

Sorry about your fish… but when I read the title I thought it might be about my eldest son.

 

[skylan]

Here is the kind of "leaning" to the side. Always the same side.

 

[skylan]

Sorry about your fish… but when I read the title I thought it might be about my eldest son.

yikes

 

[skylan]

Yes - I'd try the Rally Pro also. Be sure you manage the ammonia level in that new tank. Do you have any bio media or live rock that you could move over to that tank?

I know, I'm spamming you sorry. The quickest I can get rally pro is Tuesday. Is there anything comparable or should I just order and hope for the best?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I know, I'm spamming you sorry. The quickest I can get rally pro is Tuesday. Is there anything comparable or should I just order and hope for the best?

Sorry, I can't guess if Tuesday will be o.k. or not. Formalin is the best treatment for this, but it is hard to get and is toxic to people. Some people use Metronidazole, but I don't think that works very well. Ruby Reef is the safest (but not the most effective) treatment available.

You can try a 5 minute freshwater dip, but that really needs to be done by then moving the fish to a new, non-infected tank. Perhaps the FW dip could buy you some time?

 

[skylan]

Sorry, I can't guess if Tuesday will be o.k. or not. Formalin is the best treatment for this, but it is hard to get and is toxic to people. Some people use Metronidazole, but I don't think that works very well. Ruby Reef is the safest (but not the most effective) treatment available.

You can try a 5 minute freshwater dip, but that really needs to be done by then moving the fish to a new, non-infected tank. Perhaps the FW dip could buy you some time?

I'm sure I could figure something out if I need to move tanks. I have a 20gallon that I've been trying to cycle to set up a coral QT, it has live sand and dry rock. Last I checked there was some nitrites and slight ammonia, I could maybe drain and refill with fresh to house it for a bit?

When you say formalin is best for "this" , do you have an idea what's going on with it? I kind of thought it was hard to diagnose without any symptom except the not eating and maybe now the leaning on the bottom.

Thanks for all your efforts in responding, btw.

 

[skylan]

I do have metroplex and I'm reading it's OK to use with prazi. Since I can't obtain formalin until Tuesday is this worth a shot?

About 3 days now since the fish has eaten.

 

[PharmrJohn]

Sorry about your fish… but when I read the title I thought it might be about my eldest son.

Funny......I was just thinking the same thing. About myself.

 

[56longroof]

Invertebrates are fine with prazi or rally pro.

Is the normal dose safe or does it need to be dialed back some?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is the normal dose safe or does it need to be dialed back some?

Normal dose is fine, but you need to dose for the net volume of the tank, not its advertised volume. For example, a 29 gallon tank may only hold 22 gallons of water, given rock/sand displacement. I usually dose at 85% of a tank's volume to take displacement into account.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm sure I could figure something out if I need to move tanks. I have a 20gallon that I've been trying to cycle to set up a coral QT, it has live sand and dry rock. Last I checked there was some nitrites and slight ammonia, I could maybe drain and refill with fresh to house it for a bit?

When you say formalin is best for "this" , do you have an idea what's going on with it? I kind of thought it was hard to diagnose without any symptom except the not eating and maybe now the leaning on the bottom.

Thanks for all your efforts in responding, btw.

Sorry - I was thinking that this could be Brooklynella, and that is what Rally Pro would be used for. However, my diagnosis is NOT firm here, prazipro also to cover if it is flukes......

 

[skylan]

Sorry - I was thinking that this could be Brooklynella, and that is what Rally Pro would be used for. However, my diagnosis is NOT firm here, prazipro also to cover if it is flukes......

I did a freshwater dip about an hour ago after being in prazi for 24 hours. I feel like I may have made a rookie mistake by panicking and moving to the next thing because the fish was looking pretty terrible in the medicated water. I also gave it metroplex in the water column this morning. It was still not eating and I caught it just laying on its side not swimming multiple times.

There were no flukes in the freshwater dip, I matched temp and ph, put an airstone in the bowl with him and ran for 5 minutes. I then moved him to a new 10 gallon which I purchased this morning as I didn't want my waterbox being used for QT purposes anyways. This time I used fresh mixed saltwater. I'm going to have a problem with media unless I use my DT sump media again.

He's still a bit upset, understandably from the FW dip. I'll report back either way.

I'm sure I've done everything wrong but just tryin to save the fish. I'll try and feed again tomorrow morning, no sense in doing it now. If there's something else you'd recommend I'm all ears. I have on hand peroxide, metroplex, prazipro. Ruby pro will be here Tuesday.

The other clown is still eating like a pig and healthy in the DT.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I did a freshwater dip about an hour ago after being in prazi for 24 hours. I feel like I may have made a rookie mistake by panicking and moving to the next thing because the fish was looking pretty terrible in the medicated water. I also gave it metroplex in the water column this morning. It was still not eating and I caught it just laying on its side not swimming multiple times.

There were no flukes in the freshwater dip, I matched temp and ph, put an airstone in the bowl with him and ran for 5 minutes. I then moved him to a new 10 gallon which I purchased this morning as I didn't want my waterbox being used for QT purposes anyways. This time I used fresh mixed saltwater. I'm going to have a problem with media unless I use my DT sump media again.

He's still a bit upset, understandably from the FW dip. I'll report back either way.

I'm sure I've done everything wrong but just tryin to save the fish. I'll try and feed again tomorrow morning, no sense in doing it now. If there's something else you'd recommend I'm all ears. I have on hand peroxide, metroplex, prazipro. Ruby pro will be here Tuesday.

The other clown is still eating like a pig and healthy in the DT.

The other clown being symptom free is a real puzzler - sorry, I just don’t have a clear path forward for you.

 

[skylan]

I know. I guess I'm unsure of the path forward regardless of the sick clown. Should I try a molly in the DT to see if there's something in there?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I know. I guess I'm unsure of the path forward regardless of the sick clown. Should I try a molly in the DT to see if there's something in there?

No that's a cool idea at first glance, but it really doesn't work they way people hope.

Here is some text I wrote up about that:

Using black mollies to screen an aquarium for Cryptocaryon
In recent years, a procedure has been promoted that uses marine-adapted freshwater mollies to screen for active Cryptocaryon infections in marine aquariums. The thought is that freshwater black mollies that are naïve to marine ectoparasites, will soon develop infections if that disease is present in a marine aquarium.

With mollies being stark black, white parasites will show up in sharp contrast, making their identification much easier. Mollies have also been suggested to be housed alongside sensitive fish (that cannot be easily medicated) to serve as a “canary in the coal mine” for active disease.

The basic process is to acquire a small group of freshwater black mollies and gradually acclimate them to seawater over a period of up to 5 days. They then are added to the previously fallow aquarium, or added to the quarantine tank, and then observed for at least two weeks to see if they develop ectoparasites. If they do, then a treatment needs to be instituted, or the fallow period extended.

As with many aquarium ideas, over-extrapolation can reduce the effectiveness of the original idea. The process is really only suited to screen for Cryptocaryon. Brooklynella may not even infect mollies. Uronema and Amyloodinium can survive salinities as low as 3 ppt so may already be present in “freshwater” mollies that have been raised in brackish fishponds. Marine and freshwater fish have basically the same internal salinity. Therefore, untreatable internal diseases, such as viruses and Myxozoans could possibly be brought into an aquarium with the mollies.

There is also a risk of introducing euryhaline trematodes into an aquarium along with black mollies. Fish farmers, wholesalers and retail dealers all understand that mollies benefit from being housed in brackish water, and so they usually add salt to systems housing mollies in order to reduce mortality under crowded conditions. Euryhaline trematodes take advantage of this, the trouble is that some of these can survive marine conditions and then hyposalinity is ineffective as a treatment for them.

Finally, black mollies have been used by scientists to propagate Cryptocaryon in laboratories. However, these studies went no further and there is no scientific evidence to indicate this method is actually effective. It is based on a theory, but it needs to be better tested. If properly applied, this process may have some benefit in screening for Cryptocaryon but falls short for all other diseases.

 

[skylan]

The other clown being symptom free is a real puzzler - sorry, I just don’t have a clear path forward for you.

I received the ruby reef rally pro today. The clown is still in QT , fresh tank water. 0 ammonia as of an hour ago but still not eating. I thought it was a little more active and swimming for a bit but that seems to have been short lived. It's laying behind a pvc piece kind of sluggishly swimming while leaning towards the side. There's still no sign of any kind of mucus or skin abnormalities or rapid breathing. It's been about 6 days since eating. What would you do at this point, just try the rally pro?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I received the ruby reef rally pro today. The clown is still in QT , fresh tank water. 0 ammonia as of an hour ago but still not eating. I thought it was a little more active and swimming for a bit but that seems to have been short lived. It's laying behind a pvc piece kind of sluggishly swimming while leaning towards the side. There's still no sign of any kind of mucus or skin abnormalities or rapid breathing. It's been about 6 days since eating. What would you do at this point, just try the rally pro?

I would.

Jay

 

[skylan]

I would.

Jay

I guess at this point it's worth a shot. I just added to the QT. I'll update either way thanks.

 

[skylan]

I would.

Jay

Good news: Clown is eating again, about 5 or 6 pieces of brine today. Two days of Ruby Reef Rally Pro now, I'll dose the third at the same time today. Doing 13.5ml in a 10gallon tank and i'm calculating for 9 gallons.

I noticed yesterday the clown did a bit of flashing on the pvc pipe, similar to what I've seen fish do when they have flukes. But the freshwater dip showed nothing, and it was given prazi the day before the FW dip. Could this be the Rally pro killing some kind of parasite that didn't come off on the FW dip?

So what is my going forward plan? Ruby pro says 3 days of treatment but more for severe infections. I've never seen anything visible on either clown, however I'd say this one was pretty near death, is that severe?? Other clown is healthy, eating ravenously with no flashing or visible defects.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Good news: Clown is eating again, about 5 or 6 pieces of brine today. Two days of Ruby Reef Rally Pro now, I'll dose the third at the same time today. Doing 13.5ml in a 10gallon tank and i'm calculating for 9 gallons.

I noticed yesterday the clown did a bit of flashing on the pvc pipe, similar to what I've seen fish do when they have flukes. But the freshwater dip showed nothing, and it was given prazi the day before the FW dip. Could this be the Rally pro killing some kind of parasite that didn't come off on the FW dip?

So what is my going forward plan? Ruby pro says 3 days of treatment but more for severe infections. I've never seen anything visible on either clown, however I'd say this one was pretty near death, is that severe?? Other clown is healthy, eating ravenously with no flashing or visible defects.

Tough to say if the Rally Pro should be extended beyond 3 days or not. A little bit of scratching may just be incidental. Clowns don't often get flukes, and if it was treated once with prazi, the adult flukes would have dropped off (plus the FW dip). You probably won't see flukes in the dip water unless you use a microscope - only one type is really large enough to see with the naked eye.