Corals arrived after 4 days shipping - what to do with them?

[VintageReefer]

I would order a 5 or 10$ zoa frag, get the replacements for free and pay sh

 

[BeanAnimal]

Let's also explore something here.

You order a fish for $300 and $100 shipping.
Fish is DOA
You order another $100 more shipping.
Fish is DOA
You order a third, $100 more shipping.
Fish arrives alive. YAY

Who wins?

You ---> $400 order for the fish just cost you $600. You are out $200 more than expected.

Vendor
The fish cost the vendor $100 each. So they would have made $200 on the sale.

But it took (3) fish. So their cost $300, they lost $100 just on the fish. Add the labor involved with the extra 2 fish, the loss of profit on them and dealing with you 10 times and the shipper, etc. They likely lost $300 or more.

Some vendors are better than others, but most sane ones want your stuff to arrive alive, otherwise everybody loses.

Note that if they eat the shipping - you get your $400 fish and they are in the hole $600 plus labor to make you happy. That is why most vendors do no offer to refund or cover shipping if it is the carriers fault.

 

[Solo McReefer]

It was shipped Thursday for Friday delivery. UPS had some issue and didn't deliver until Monday

Your issue is with UPS

Why is this a 4 page thread?

I just received an order from Aqua SD. No issues. Good communication

 

[Naekuh]

That adds cost - the vendor must maintain shipper accounts and contracts with two or more carriers and/or adhere to two or more sets of shipping standards, route considerations and other factors.

This makes no sense when we pay for the shipping.
What cost? We pay that cost.
We still should be given a choice in carrier.

Im sure some of us would pay the additional cost to have a choice in carrier.

Your issue is with UPS

Why is this a 4 page thread?

I just received an order from Aqua SD. No issues. Good communication

WOW.. i think you missed the first 3 pages of the entire thread.

 

[BeanAnimal]

This makes no sense when we pay for the shipping.
What cost? We pay that cost.
We still should be given a choice in carrier.

I don't think you really understand what is involved.

First of all the "cost" is a negotiated rate that is less than what YOU would pay if you arranged for shipping. That means that the vendor has to maintain shipper accounts and contracts with more than one shipper. This takes time and effort. It costs a business money any time they spend time and effort maintaining a relationship.

The vendor has to add the feature to the their shopping cart and maintain their shipper tables through more than one piece of software or interface. This complicates issues. Complications cost money.

The vendor has to adhere to more than one set of shipping standards, cut off times, etc. if they wish to maintain more than one shipping option. This costs time and money.

The vendor has to deal with these various shippers to solve problems instead of just one shipper. More time, more cost.

Im sure some of us would pay the additional cost to have a choice in carrier.

If you can find a vendor that offers that option, then great! Work with them. But you can't demand that all vendors offer this option, you have no say in how a vendor operates their business or writes their policies. You can suggest, but they are under no obligation to listen.

 

[Naekuh]

First of all the "cost" is a negotiated rate that is less than what YOU would pay if you arranged for shipping. That means that the vendor has to maintain shipper accounts and contracts with more than one shipper. This takes time and effort. It costs a business money any time they spend time and effort maintaining a relationship.

according to business law then you are the seller is then responsible for the shipping, and damages which may occur because you are forced a choice on us. You the seller made this choice, either for profit reasons, or for some business reason, hence its your responsibility that the package arrives.

Bean, this will lose in civil court 9/10 times if taken to court.

If the vendor wants to get out of responsiblity, the option of choice must be given otherwise the seller is responsible for the merchandise from point A to point B.

This is why in worse case you can notify CC company and 100% they will do a full charge back.

 

[BeanAnimal]

according to business law then you are the seller is then responsible for the shipping,

Bean, this will lose in civil court 9/10 times if taken to court.

No sir, you are bound by the explicit terms that you agreed to. If there are no terms stated, then things can differ with regard to responsibility.

Unrelated but mentioned. A vendor is not by any means or law required to offer you choice of carriers.

As mentioned above, if you agree to terms and then ignore those terms with a chargeback attempt, the vendor will present the binding terms that you agreed to to and your claim will be denied.

There is nothing to argue about here.

 

[Naekuh]

No sir, you are bound by the explicit terms that you agreed to. If there are no terms stated, then things can differ with regard to responsibility.

Unrelated but mentioned. A vendor is not by any means or law required to offer you choice of carriers.

As mentioned above, if you agree to terms and then ignore those terms with a chargeback attempt, the vendor will present the binding terms that you agreed to to and your claim will be denied.

There is nothing to argue about here.

NOPE...

This is from the direct words from a lawyer:

The law requires that they give you the exact product that is fit and merchantabile, then they are required to incur those costs here.
So this means that you would not have the obligation to pay for this.

Seriously if in doubt ask a lawyer.

Unrelated but mentioned. A vendor is not by any means or law required to offer you choice of carriers.

The offer of choice is a offer to hand off responsibility of the vendor in shipping to the buyer.
This is why a choice must be given.

Again Bean, you will lose in civil court 9/10 times.
You can not write any exceptions you want at the bottom or terms of sales which goes against state law.
They are superseded by civil law.

 

[moretor1]

I always ask my coral to be shipped Monday or Tuesday because of this

That said UPS has $100 liability for all orders and businesses can pay 1.15% of the value of the item to insure it

It is the responsibility of the business to insure their packages and to refund shipping issues

That is just the cost of doing business

 

[BeanAnimal]

That said UPS has $100 liability for all orders and businesses can pay 1.15% of the value of the item to insure it

Live animals can’t be insured.

It is the responsibility of the business to insure their packages and to refund shipping issues

That is just the cost of doing business

Not if other terms are agreed to. Please see FOB origin and FOB destination and understand the difference.

 

[VintageReefer]

What many people don’t realize is many times the lice you pay for shipping is less than the actual cost and the vendor is absorbing that without mentioning it.

45, 50$ shipping fee in your cart…many times costs the vendor 60-80$ depending where you live. They just charge a flat rate but the my pay the extra

 

[moretor1]

Live animals can’t be insured.


Not if other terms are agreed to. Please see FOB origin and FOB destination and understand the difference.

I did not know ups didn't insure them directly

That said there are other private insurance companies that do handle it

Redline Shipping

DISCOUNTED FEDEX LABELS AND SUPPLIES FOR YOUR REPTILES, AQUATICS, AND INVERTEBRATES- FROM THE LIVE SHIPPING EXPERTS.

www.redlineshipping.com

I understand not refunding shipping fees but it is the companies job to get the livestock to you alive. Part of the responsibility is them picking appropriate shipping partners

 

[Naekuh]

That said there are other private insurance companies that do handle it

That would require a choice... hence my whole rant...
If the vendor wants to get out of responsibility of shipping, they need to present a choice to the customer, so they can unload the responsibility of shipping.

But most vendors won't because like bean states, its a extra business cost/ maintenance on there end.
But that is the collar that binds the vendor to make sure the package arrives as expected. Because the product and shipping is packaged as one item, and shipping fails, the entire product is not as promised, which is again against business law.

 

[danreef55]

Question to the legal folks. Wondering if the terms of sale governing US transactions is based upon the Inco terms? This would specify where title and risk are transferred. Under FOB Factory title and risk pass at the time the goods are shipped. Would the seller's specific statement Live Arrival Guaranteed then further clarify the terms of sale?
Appreciate an education.

Thanks
Dan

 

[BeanAnimal]

That said there are other private insurance companies that do handle it

Maybe, but I am not sure the cost or the benefit as it relates to trouble. I would think that more would offer it if it were viable.

I understand not refunding shipping fees but it is the companies job to get the livestock to you alive. Part of the responsibility is them picking appropriate shipping partners

It all depends on what is agreed to in the terms. That is why it is important to read them, they are a contract.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That would require a choice... hence my whole rant...
If the vendor wants to get out of responsibility of shipping, they need to present a choice to the customer, so they can unload the responsibility of shipping.

That is just not the way it works. They are free to choose whatever shipper and terms they wish. You are free to agree or take your business elsewhere.

Because the product and shipping is packaged as one item, and shipping fails, the entire product is not as promised, which is again against business law.

That is not the way it works. You are bound by whatever terms you agree to. Most of this falls under FOB and the law is well establish and precedented.

 

[Naekuh]

That is just not the way it works. They are free to choose whatever shipper and terms they wish. You are free to agree or take your business elsewhere.


That is not the way it works. You are bound by whatever terms you agree to. Most of this falls under FOB and the law is well establish and precedented.

FOB Shipping Point vs. FOB Destination: What’s the Difference?

Free on board shipping point and free on board destination refer to the status of ownership by either the buyer or seller when goods are transported by water.

www.investopedia.com

• Free on board destination indicates that the seller retains liability for loss or damage until the goods are delivered to the buyer.

However:

Free on board, also referred to as freight on board, only refers to shipments made via waterways, and does not apply to any goods transported by vehicle or by air.1

MEH...i give up...




Cliff's:

AquaSD: did refund Gribbles.
AquaSD is still a great vendor in my book by doing so.

 

[danreef55]

In international business the norm is to state
'FOB (name place) otherwise either could be construed.

 

[BeanAnimal]

FOB Shipping Point vs. FOB Destination: What’s the Difference?

Free on board shipping point and free on board destination refer to the status of ownership by either the buyer or seller when goods are transported by water.

www.investopedia.com

FOB destination and origin are determined by the wording of the contract. That is the whole point. You are bound by the terms you agree to, they become the contract.

So - always read the terms before you buy.

 

[KrisReef]

The court costs to attempt to recover a coral shipment that could not be insured because live animals were involved is going to negate the transaction costs and increase liability claims beyond the limits covered in the original contract, unless you are Chuck Norris.

Did you know Chuck is 1/2 Native American as well as an American?