Corals died after tank transfer

[mossanimal]

I recently moved some montis, chalice and Xenia (among other things) over to a 15gallon from a 90. I had all freshly made Reef Crystals and a few cups of sand from the original tank as well as live rock. Due to various reasons I had to do this fairly quickly and didn't think of the parameter changes. Almost immediately the chalice and monti started bleaching and now have died. The Xenia is still there but very shrunken and limp. I also added zoas and a leather and they are starting to recover. I also put my Crocea clam in there and surprisingly it has looked great right from the beginning.

A limpet died as well and it looks like the hitch hiker asterina did as well.

Looking at parameters I'm assuming it was too big of a swing in alkalinity and ph. This freshly made seawater is around 11dKH (is that normal for Reef Crystals when first mixed??) and the tank they came from was more like 7-8.

Thoughts on all of this? I'm pretty upset about the loss of my monti plate and chalice and now am wondering what I should do before adding more stock. I figured I would be fine since I was using so much rock from the previous aquarium. And I monitored nitrogen and never saw any sign of cycling. I'm wishing now that I had just used the water from the previous tank.

 

[Idoc]

Corals are very susceptible to parameter shifts that occur too quickly. Maybe get the dKH to around what the corals are used to, as well as the pH, nitrates, phosphates next time. Probably best to have used water directly from your old tank to initially fill the new tank.

 

[mossanimal]

Corals are very susceptible to parameter shifts that occur too quickly. Maybe get the dKH to around what the corals are used to, as well as the pH, nitrates, phosphates next time. Probably best to have used water directly from your old tank to initially fill the new tank.

Thanks. Do you have any idea if a dKH of 11 is normal for freshly mixed Reef Crystals?

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

Thanks. Do you have any idea if a dKH of 11 is normal for freshly mixed Reef Crystals?

Appears correct, old forum post found "IO Reef Crystals and RS Coral Pro typically run around 12 dKH"

You should switch salts, the fact that you have to guess the dKH is ridiculous

(former IO regular user now using RS blue)

What was the change in PAR from old tank to new? Did you have a bacterial bloom?

 

[mossanimal]

Appears correct, old forum post found "IO Reef Crystals and RS Coral Pro typically run around 12 dKH"

You should switch salts, the fact that you have to guess the dKH is ridiculous

(former IO regular user now using RS blue)

What was the change in PAR from old tank to new? Did you have a bacterial bloom?

I'm not sure what you mean by guessing the dKH?

The first day with all the live rock I did have cloudy water for a day or so that could have been a bacterial bloom?

As to PAR, I wish I knew exactly. The old tank has 165W Phlizon black boxes that were set at 60 blue and 20 white. The 15 gallon cube has an AI Prime with Saxby settings but in acclimation mode) reduced by 40%). I really need to get a PAR meter because of my Crocea clam. I've gotten mixed messages on whether or not the AI Prime is enough for that light hog. Right now it's about 4" from the surface and looks great.

 

[landlubber]

I'm not sure what you mean by guessing the dKH?

The first day with all the live rock I did have cloudy water for a day or so that could have been a bacterial bloom?

As to PAR, I wish I knew exactly. The old tank has 165W Phlizon black boxes that were set at 60 blue and 20 white. The 15 gallon cube has an AI Prime with Saxby settings but in acclimation mode) reduced by 40%). I really need to get a PAR meter because of my Crocea clam. I've gotten mixed messages on whether or not the AI Prime is enough for that light hog. Right now it's about 4" from the surface and looks great.

I gather when he says guessing the dkH he's referring to the guessing game you're playing between the values between salt mixes.
For the past 10 years i reliably know that every time i prepare NSW to 1.026 that its going to result in my dkH being right around 8. If i got 11dkH out of a pail i'd be looking for salt that is consistent from bucket to bucket.

 

[mossanimal]

I gather when he says guessing the dkH he's referring to the guessing game you're playing between the values between salt mixes.
For the past 10 years i reliably know that every time i prepare NSW to 1.026 that its going to result in my dkH being right around 8. If i got 11dkH out of a pail i'd be looking for salt that is consistent from bucket to bucket.

Oh I see. Well my issue is that when I originally mixed the saltwater from the original tank I didn't measure the dKH. So I don't know what it started at. I don't do water changes in that tank and after 6 months or so when I started to add sps to the system I started paying more attention to alkalinity and pH. So all I know is that after 6 months of running that tank, the dKH was a lot lower than what I just mixed. I was getting good growth in all of corals and the clam and ran kalk in the ATO. But obviously I really let the alkalinity drop over time.

 

[Tamberav]

So I transfer stuff to new tanks like this often (i move too much) and on my pico tank I would do 100 percent water changes.

That being said, I used something like instant ocean which runs alk closer to 8 or 9. Have used some salts that were 7.

I really despise higher alk salts.

 

[Idoc]

Thanks. Do you have any idea if a dKH of 11 is normal for freshly mixed Reef Crystals?

Yes, it is usually around 11-12 dKH. Regular Instant Ocean salt is around 9 dKH, I believe.

 

[mossanimal]

So I transfer stuff to new tanks like this often (i move too much) and on my pico tank I would do 100 percent water changes.

That being said, I used something like instant ocean which runs alk closer to 8 or 9. Have used some salts that were 7.

I really despise higher alk salts.

Yeah I've read that a lot of people do transfers that way so I thought I would be fine. I just didn't anticipate such a big alkalinity change. Ug. That chalice was awesome.

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

I'm not sure what you mean by guessing the dKH?

The first day with all the live rock I did have cloudy water for a day or so that could have been a bacterial bloom?

As to PAR, I wish I knew exactly. The old tank has 165W Phlizon black boxes that were set at 60 blue and 20 white. The 15 gallon cube has an AI Prime with Saxby settings but in acclimation mode) reduced by 40%). I really need to get a PAR meter because of my Crocea clam. I've gotten mixed messages on whether or not the AI Prime is enough for that light hog. Right now it's about 4" from the surface and looks great.

The salt I use (Red Sea blue) lists their ALK as 8 dkh, 430 ca, 1310mg at 35ppt. I'm saying IO doesn't list anything officially so people have to guess what it is.

Red Sea Salt | Premium grade, moderate Alkalinity

Bring out your coral’s most vivid colors! Red Sea Salt will maximize pigment saturation, and encourage growth up to twice the natural rate.

g1.redseafish.com

Does your LFS rent PAR meters? I recently setup a QT tank and it looked good, until I used my par meter. Super low, pumped my XR15 from 30% to 75%. Tough to confirm par based on looks IMO

I have a PARwise and really like it, worked fine for well over a year

 

[mossanimal]

The salt I use (Red Sea blue) lists their ALK as 8 dkh, 430 ca, 1310mg at 35ppt. I'm saying IO doesn't list anything officially so people have to guess what it is.

Red Sea Salt | Premium grade, moderate Alkalinity

Bring out your coral’s most vivid colors! Red Sea Salt will maximize pigment saturation, and encourage growth up to twice the natural rate.

g1.redseafish.com

Does your LFS rent PAR meters? I recently setup a QT tank and it looked good, until I used my par meter. Super low, pumped my XR15 from 30% to 75%. Tough to confirm par based on looks IMO

I have a PARwise and really like it, worked fine for well over a year

I have no local LFS due to my remote location. The closest rental unit is 5 hours away. I could do the BRS thing and buy/return but it's hard to spend that money. I may have to do it though. It's really hard getting info how much light I can expect to get with this AI Prime in a 15" tank!

 

[brandon429]

I have other example threads where moving unrinsed sand killed things.

There are two actions here which are opposite of the tank transfer thread. Once these two are adjusted, it's possible and underway to transfer any reef tank at all and they'll never bleach:

1. Never move a handful of old sand
People who did that got lucky, they prescribe it to you, your presentation was different, they didn't account for that.

2. After transfer you must drop all light levels and sustain them for several days before ramp up

 

[Poseidon03]

I have no local LFS due to my remote location. The closest rental unit is 5 hours away. I could do the BRS thing and buy/return but it's hard to spend that money. I may have to do it though. It's really hard getting info how much light I can expect to get with this AI Prime in a 15" tank!

A fellow midwesterner! My bet would be on the parameter shifts, but it is hard to tell. Other things could be contaminates, temp swing, flow bacterial infection, ammonia, ect. I know a lot of people do not acclimate or drip corals, but that dKh is high. I agree with others on here about changing salt mixes. IO can be inconsistant from bucket to bucket, which can cause problems. A lot of people do run successful reefs with it, so it is not set in stone, just recommended.

How fresh was the salt?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I recently moved some montis, chalice and Xenia (among other things) over to a 15gallon from a 90. I had all freshly made Reef Crystals and a few cups of sand from the original tank as well as live rock. Due to various reasons I had to do this fairly quickly and didn't think of the parameter changes. Almost immediately the chalice and monti started bleaching and now have died. The Xenia is still there but very shrunken and limp. I also added zoas and a leather and they are starting to recover. I also put my Crocea clam in there and surprisingly it has looked great right from the beginning.

A limpet died as well and it looks like the hitch hiker asterina did as well.

Looking at parameters I'm assuming it was too big of a swing in alkalinity and ph. This freshly made seawater is around 11dKH (is that normal for Reef Crystals when first mixed??) and the tank they came from was more like 7-8.

Thoughts on all of this? I'm pretty upset about the loss of my monti plate and chalice and now am wondering what I should do before adding more stock. I figured I would be fine since I was using so much rock from the previous aquarium. And I monitored nitrogen and never saw any sign of cycling. I'm wishing now that I had just used the water from the previous tank.

I tend to acclimate when I move tanks as they are susceptible to shock

 

[mossanimal]

I have other example threads where moving unrinsed sand killed things.

There are two actions here which are opposite of the tank transfer thread. Once these two are adjusted, it's possible and underway to transfer any reef tank at all and they'll never bleach:

1. Never move a handful of old sand
People who did that got lucky, they prescribe it to you, your presentation was different, they didn't account for that.

2. After transfer you must drop all light levels and sustain them for several days before ramp up

Well I didn't rinse the sand. I didn't think I needed to because the sand in the original tank wasn't very deep. I was also hoping it would seed the tank with microbiome. What exactly is the stressor in unrinsed sand?

 

[mossanimal]

A fellow midwesterner! My bet would be on the parameter shifts, but it is hard to tell. Other things could be contaminates, temp swing, flow bacterial infection, ammonia, ect. I know a lot of people do not acclimate or drip corals, but that dKh is high. I agree with others on here about changing salt mixes. IO can be inconsistant from bucket to bucket, which can cause problems. A lot of people do run successful reefs with it, so it is not set in stone, just recommended.

How fresh was the salt?

The salt was from a bag that was about a year old.

Well I guess it's time to shop around for salt. Now that I only have a 15g at least it won't be as expensive.

 

[gkprevite]

As you mentioned rc has high alk. So I use it for water changes. Filling a new tank with rc def shocked your corals from the parameters shifting. I prefer instant ocean to fill especially for a transfer as the parameters will be closer to your tank than filling with reef crystals. The sand likely wasn’t a big factor.