Debating switching from T5’s to led

[A. grandis]

This got away from your questions

if you have basic black boxs you will have a hard time getting growth with those LEDs. They are not going to get dialed in or diffuse light well enough to get good growth. At least I wouldn’t be confident using them for growth.

BRS has lots of investigations on LED placement with PAR readings from all the major LEDs. They go over tank sizes, number of lights, height, and intensity. I suggest watching a few videos. They can explain everything much better than anyone in here can or has.

They also have videos saying that there is no better than metal halides.
They published some great videos showing T5s too.
Their videos are made to sell what they have in stock.
PAR alone doesn't (or at least shouldn't) dictate what is the best quality light for your reef tank.

 

[oreo54]

I started this hobby about 12 years ago. I started with T5 and in year 7 switched to LED black box. I went back to T5 3 years ago. You can't compare the growth you get with T5. Slow growth with LED. I had my LED about the same height as my T5

Another "no idea if the beginning par and new par" ect statement.

Can you quantify this and why did it take 4 years to switch?

Not exactly criticizing but it is short if any real meat but a classic example

 

[iamacat]

They also have videos saying that there is no better than metal halides.
They published some great videos showing T5s too.
Their videos are made to sell what they have in stock.
PAR doesn't (or at least shouldn't) dictate what is the best quality light to a reef tank.

I think answering his questions is more important than proclaiming your opinions

 

[fishface NJ]

Another "no idea if the beginning par and new par" ect statement.

Can you quantify this and why did it take 4 years to switch?

Not exactly criticizing but it is short if any real meat but a classic example

I gave the LED time. You asked why it took me four years to switch back. The reason is I had to save my money to pay for them. I use my CC to buy things but I pay off 100% of my CC balance each month.

 

[A. grandis]

I think answering his questions is more important than proclaiming your opinions

This thread was open for opinions. I gave mine. Too bad we are all different and don't agree. I'll let him search for himself. People who tend to expect everything coming to their hands end up trusting the wrong statement/ person.
Results don't lie!
Some new people who choose LEDs will never know the differences simply because they don't know better.
LEDs are fine as supplemental lights. The light from blue diodes can't be reproduced by T5s or halides, for those who like them.

 

[iamacat]

This thread was open for opinion. I gave mine. Too bad we are all different and don't agree. I'll let him search for himself. People who tend to expect everything coming to their hands end up trusting the wrong statement/ person.

This is ironic. I’m pretty sure everyone here lamented that exact same thing and has encouraged researching the LEDs. I wouldn’t want to take the word of someone ranting about a personal experience. There are plenty of people that have already done the research and have documented the findings.

 

[TankCandy]

I just switch from a Hybrid LED/T5 to all Oprhek Atlantik's and my SPS has taken off. Like other have said i had to slowly acclimate my coral since the lights are so intense it would just burn them.

 

[a4edwin]

I’ve been reading that the Orphek light bars are giving t5’s a run for their money. No shadowing. And the blue plus ones are really making the coral colors pop.

 

[TankCandy]

I’ve been reading that the Orphek light bars are giving t5’s a run for their money. No shadowing. And the blue plus ones are really making the coral colors pop.

They absolutely do.

T5/LED hybrid

 

[a4edwin]

They absolutely do.

T5/LED hybrid

We’re you using the Orphek light bars with the t5’s? That looks sweet

 

[TankCandy]

We’re you using the Orphek light bars with the t5’s? That looks sweet

Yea. I hung them over my 36" 4 bulb T5 fixture lol.

 

[oreo54]

I gave the LED time. You asked why it took me four years to switch back. The reason is I had to save my money to pay for them. I use my CC to buy things but I pay off 100% of my CC balance each month.

Sorry my question wasn't supposed to be published..I was distracted and hit reply.

So apologies again.

Point was answers like yours pose more questions than answers..like what were your light levels w/ each type of lighting.
Guess that is the more diplomatic way to say it.

 

[A. grandis]

This is ironic. I’m pretty sure everyone here lamented that exact same thing and has encouraged researching the LEDs. I wouldn’t want to take the word of someone ranting about a personal experience. There are plenty of people that have already done the research and have documented the findings.

What findings were documented? That LEDs have a huge initial cost to accommodate "acceptable results"? That you will need to come to this forum over and over and search a bunch of threads to find what LED someone says would be good for your tank and you should use, just to find out that it won't work for you because your system is different and your corals were not adapted correctly, etc? How much money should you spend to just try those "great" LED fixtures? That LEDs won't last what their manufacturer promise? That LEDs are nothing BETTER than halides and/or T5s, when the fact is that Halides/T5s are way easier to use and has way more chances of providing amazing results without any risks? Yeah, cause for so many years those LED manufacturers actually have said the opposite to promote their products. That in it's majority LEDs will need a lot of miss and hit to start with? That the LED train's fuel is the "new model" they put in the market every year, so they can continue to roll their snow ball? I don't want even talk about sponsorship! LED companies/sellers are very smart and I applaud their marketing strategies!! They are doing a great job!
Get an ATI Sunpower, for example, and you will never have to buy any fixture in your life again. Get a good halide system running and you will die before it stops working! You will have healthy amazing corals growing like in the ocean!
I've been telling guys like our respected Dr. Sanjay for many years about changing his Radions back to his amazing halides cause in the long run he was going to see the reflection of his bad decision. Only now he agrees with me! Many others heard me long ago and now they thank me for it! I'm humble writing this, and proud of them for confirming my words, enjoying their lights and the results!
There are those who have an amazing tank under LEDs, but the great majority of us won't have the money to invest in those systems. By the way... no one would actually need such expensive systems to have the very best aquarium in the world!
Most of the threads here are to complain about their LEDs, their manufacturers, ask for "settings", or to ask help because their corals are dying under LEDs. The forum became a hospital for bad decisions IMO. Halide and T5 users don't need to come here because they won't have any problems at all. If they come is because they just want to talk about their systems, show the results and such.
I agree and respect that everyone can and should have what they want, but I expect to be respected when I put my own opinions here too. If you can't take my opinions then just ignore me, please. I'm tired of LED users come after me criticizing my suggestions. I could come to every single LED thread here and criticize all LED users, but I only participate in those threads that are open to what I could suggest. I'm not imposing, only suggesting. The OPs will decide what they want. There is room for everyone.
Search and you will find the answers. Many newbies are starting to realize what this LED trend is about: market sales! Time to wake up!

 

[iamacat]

What findings were documented? That LEDs have a huge initial cost to accommodate "acceptable results"? That you will need to come to this forum over and over and search a bunch of threads to find what LED someone says would be good for your tank and you should use, just to find out that it won't work for you because your system is different and your corals were not adapted correctly, etc? How much money should you spend to just try those "great" LED fixtures? That LEDs won't last what their manufacturer promise? That LEDs are nothing BETTER than halides and/or T5s, when the fact is that Halides/T5s are way easier to use and has way more chances of providing amazing results without any risks? Yeah, cause for so many years those LED manufacturers actually have said the opposite to promote their products. That in it's majority LEDs will need a lot of miss and hit to start with? That the LED train's fuel is the "new model" they put in the market every year, so they can continue to roll their snow ball? I don't want even talk about sponsorship! LED companies/sellers are very smart and I applaud their marketing strategies!! They are doing a great job!
Get an ATI Sunpower, for example, and you will never have to buy any fixture in your life again. Get a good halide system running and you will die before it stops working! You will have healthy amazing corals growing like in the ocean!
I've been telling guys like our respected Dr. Sanjay for many years about changing his Radions back to his amazing halides cause in the long run he was going to see the reflection of his bad decision. Only now he agrees with me! Many others heard me long ago and now they thank me for it! I'm humble writing this, and proud of them for admit and confirming my words!
There are those who have an amazing tank under LEDs, but the great majority of us won't have the money to invest in those systems. By the way... no one would actually need such expensive systems to have the very best aquarium in the world!
Most of the threads here are to complain about their LEDs, the manufacterer, ask for "settings", or to ask help because their corals are dying under LEDs. The forum became a hospital for bad decisions IMO. Halide and T5 users don't need to come here because they won't have any problems at all. If they come is because they just want to talk about their systems, show the results and such.
I agree and respect that everyone can and should have what they want, but I expect to be respected when I put my own opinions here too. If you can't take my opinions then just ignore me, please. I'm tired of LED users come after me criticizing my suggestions. I could come to every single LED thread here and criticize all LED users, but I only participate in those threads that are open to what I could suggest. I'm not imposing, only suggesting. The OPs will decide what they want. There is room for everyone.
Search and you will find the answers. Many newbies are starting to realize what this LED trend is about: market sales! Time to wake up!

dude

 

[A. grandis]

Beautiful girl, iamacat!
I'm sorry she didn't like what uncle said. LOL!

 

[X-37B]

I went from 8 t5's to 14K MH and love them, lol.
I just picked up a or3 120 blue plus to supplement day night viewing.
1 light bar is equal to 2 T5 easily, imo.
Take a look at the Orphek bars if you want led's.
No crazy ramp up or down just on and off, lol.
A friend runs 4 and has amazing color and growth.
4 cost what 1 radion costs and less on sale.
I have 2 gen4 xr30 used for a upgrade tank that im working on.
Just sold them and am going to run the orphek bars and MH for the best of both worlds, imo.

 

[iamacat]

Beautiful girl, iamacat!
I'm sorry she didn't like what uncle said. LOL!

wut

 

[Bpb]

What findings were documented? That LEDs have a huge initial cost to accommodate "acceptable results"? That you will need to come to this forum over and over and search a bunch of threads to find what LED someone says would be good for your tank and you should use, just to find out that it won't work for you because your system is different and your corals were not adapted correctly, etc? How much money should you spend to just try those "great" LED fixtures? That LEDs won't last what their manufacturer promise? That LEDs are nothing BETTER than halides and/or T5s, when the fact is that Halides/T5s are way easier to use and has way more chances of providing amazing results without any risks? Yeah, cause for so many years those LED manufacturers actually have said the opposite to promote their products. That in it's majority LEDs will need a lot of miss and hit to start with? That the LED train's fuel is the "new model" they put in the market every year, so they can continue to roll their snow ball? I don't want even talk about sponsorship! LED companies/sellers are very smart and I applaud their marketing strategies!! They are doing a great job!
Get an ATI Sunpower, for example, and you will never have to buy any fixture in your life again. Get a good halide system running and you will die before it stops working! You will have healthy amazing corals growing like in the ocean!
I've been telling guys like our respected Dr. Sanjay for many years about changing his Radions back to his amazing halides cause in the long run he was going to see the reflection of his bad decision. Only now he agrees with me! Many others heard me long ago and now they thank me for it! I'm humble writing this, and proud of them for confirming my words, enjoying their lights and the results!
There are those who have an amazing tank under LEDs, but the great majority of us won't have the money to invest in those systems. By the way... no one would actually need such expensive systems to have the very best aquarium in the world!
Most of the threads here are to complain about their LEDs, their manufacturers, ask for "settings", or to ask help because their corals are dying under LEDs. The forum became a hospital for bad decisions IMO. Halide and T5 users don't need to come here because they won't have any problems at all. If they come is because they just want to talk about their systems, show the results and such.
I agree and respect that everyone can and should have what they want, but I expect to be respected when I put my own opinions here too. If you can't take my opinions then just ignore me, please. I'm tired of LED users come after me criticizing my suggestions. I could come to every single LED thread here and criticize all LED users, but I only participate in those threads that are open to what I could suggest. I'm not imposing, only suggesting. The OPs will decide what they want. There is room for everyone.
Search and you will find the answers. Many newbies are starting to realize what this LED trend is about: market sales! Time to wake up!

I agree with most of that. The forum does have a large number of “did this with lighting and everything bleached” or “help me troubleshoot this connectivity error”. Part of the reason I ditched relying on an apex.

Though I do take issue with a couple approaches. Namely the market sales one. Last time I checked ATI wasn’t giving away Sunpowers nor was Giesemann giving away spectra units. They charge a premium for a very inexpensive product and make a healthy profit in the process. Every company that sells reef gear is in it for sales. Otherwise they’d be giving it away. It’s silly to say “led bad because profits, gas bulbs good because.....not profits?” Just doesnt line up.

Also. While one could call an led panel a Christmas light, one could just as easily call a t5 fixture a shop light. Or a halide pendant a parking lot lamp. It’s a lazy euphemism that can be applied across the board.

I absolutely respect your passion for old school tech. I’m a big fan myself. My tank is largely run by eheim, geo, and lifereef. I only ditched my tunzes because neither made it to the 2 year mark and Roger wanted $90 plus shipping per unit to just diagnose them. I digress. But I just think your debate techniques leave a lot to be desired which is a large reason you get pushback.

 

[A. grandis]

I agree with most of that. The forum does have a large number of “did this with lighting and everything bleached” or “help me troubleshoot this connectivity error”. Part of the reason I ditched relying on an apex.

Though I do take issue with a couple approaches. Namely the market sales one. Last time I checked ATI wasn’t giving away Sunpowers nor was Giesemann giving away spectra units. They charge a premium for a very inexpensive product and make a healthy profit in the process. Every company that sells reef gear is in it for sales. Otherwise they’d be giving it away. It’s silly to say “led bad because profits, gas bulbs good because.....not profits?” Just doesnt line up.

Also. While one could call an led panel a Christmas light, one could just as easily call a t5 fixture a shop light. Or a halide pendant a parking lot lamp. It’s a lazy euphemism that can be applied across the board.

I absolutely respect your passion for old school tech. I’m a big fan myself. My tank is largely run by eheim, geo, and lifereef. I only ditched my tunzes because neither made it to the 2 year mark and Roger wanted $90 plus shipping per unit to just diagnose them. I digress. But I just think your debate techniques leave a lot to be desired which is a large reason you get pushback.

There are many things in this hobby that we just can't explain yet and therefore results are the most important for many situations. If shop lights will give better results than Christmas lights I'll get some shop lights running here. I still think street lights and shop lights together are even better though. LOL!
I agree with the high price for some of the T5/halides systems from some manufacturers. I still think we pay for their quality and design. Besides, you will certainly buy those fixture only once. Most likely there will be no updates or fancy apps.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

I’ve been reading that the Orphek light bars are giving t5’s a run for their money. No shadowing. And the blue plus ones are really making the coral colors pop.

I wouldn’t say so. Totally different applications.
I have two OR3’s and they provide a fairly narrow band of light with some shadowing, not close to the diffused light of T5’s.
That being said they are awesome at providing coral pop and have a nice spectrum for growth.