"Do not overmix salt" - Why?

[JayM]

Perhaps because it's not being mixed "vigorously" in your tank?

 

[Miami Reef]

Prolonged mixing, especially with aeration or excessive agitation, increases the water's exposure to air, allowing it to absorb more carbon dioxide. This can shift the pH and alkalinity, leading to the precipitation of calcium carbonate—essentially, the dissolved elements start forming solid particles, reducing their availability in the solution and causing cloudiness or sediment.

This is wrong. More Carbon dioxide (lower pH) reduces precipitation.

The answer is phosphate and organics in a reef tank poison the seed crystals that would normally precipitate calcium carbonate.

 

[BryanM]

TPMS is 7dKH, not 12 fyi.

redsea coral pro salt mixes 12.3-12.7 dkh, this is what I was referring to.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Basically the title - why does some salt indicate to not "overmix"

Isn't it functionally being perpetually "mixed" once it enters the tank following a water change? What would be the adverse side effect to leaving a pump mixing salt perpetually in a container, is this not fundamentally the same as when it's added to your tank and is constantly being turned over with the other 90% of water volume you combined it with?

While it may be a translation issue, those directions are internally inconsistent (the mix without aeration directions, and the pH comment), but the purpose of the time limit is to reduce the potential for precipitation of calcium carbonate from a high alk (and by their words, high pH) salt mix.

That said, we had some people in the Chem forum try to mimic the video Red Sea showed of precipitation, and they were unable to do so even after mixing for days.

i expect the issue depends on the CO2 level in your hoe air and how much it impacts the ph, which itself is a huge driver of precipitation.

 

[mjszos]

While it may be a translation issue, those directions are internally inconsistent (the mix without aeration directions, and the pH comment), but the purpose of the time limit is to reduce the potential for precipitation of calcium carbonate from a high alk (and by their words, high pH) salt mix.

That said, we had some people in the Chem forum try to mimic the video Red Sea showed of precipitation, and they were unable to do so even after mixing for days.

i expect the issue depends on the CO2 level in your hoe air and how much it impacts the ph, which itself is a huge driver of precipitation.

Heard, thanks for chiming in. As always, appreciate your expertise. I do wonder if an experiment would be worthwhile to attempt to replicate their results... And ultimately what the value of this experiment would even be outside of general curiosity.

 

[rtparty]

I do wonder if that plays a part... My water goes up to temp prior to adding any salt...

@rtparty - I've not had a chance to review your salt mix thread, but I am curious if you tested at a specific temperature, and if the results you noticed with the Red Sea precipitating were replicated both at a lower and average tank temp?

I followed instructions from the manufacturer if they were given.

Looking at my notes, I added the RSCP salt to 68° water and then heated it to 74° before pulling the sample to be sent off.

Precipitation is more likely at higher temps.

If I were to use Red Sea salt, I’d be more inclined to use the blue bucket for the lower alkalinity. Wha other salts can you get locally?

 

[mjszos]

I followed instructions from the manufacturer if they were given.

Looking at my notes, I added the RSCP salt to 68° water and then heated it to 74° before pulling the sample to be sent off.

Precipitation is more likely at higher temps.

If I were to use Red Sea salt, I’d be more inclined to use the blue bucket for the lower alkalinity. Wha other salts can you get locally?

Got it. That's quite an interesting output. I'm curious how it relates to Randys comments above.

I can get everything locally, it just depends how far I want to drive, LOL.

The LFS I've been frequenting recently carries Reef Crystals which I was not impressed with previously, but I can have them order TM Pro for me.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I remember seeing video by BRS a while back where they tested multiple brands and they did experiment on mixing them for 2-4 hrs as recommended and then extended period of time like week or longer (if memory serves me right) and they found no difference in alk cal mag changes if any.


Note: I was wrong. they stored water without movement

 

[Dan_P]

Basically the title - why does some salt indicate to not "overmix"

Isn't it functionally being perpetually "mixed" once it enters the tank following a water change? What would be the adverse side effect to leaving a pump mixing salt perpetually in a container, is this not fundamentally the same as when it's added to your tank and is constantly being turned over with the other 90% of water volume you combined it with?

Possibly, pH will decline as CO2 equilibrates with air. It will likely happen in the aquarium anyway.

 

[rtparty]

Got it. That's quite an interesting output. I'm curious how it relates to Randys comments above.

I can get everything locally, it just depends how far I want to drive, LOL.

The LFS I've been frequenting recently carries Reef Crystals which I was not impressed with previously, but I can have them order TM Pro for me.

I really like TM Pro and NYOS salt. Instant Ocean Purple, Reef Crystals, and both Red Sea are my least favorite salts. I found them all to be dirty and inconsistent batch to batch.

On principle, I don’t buy anything Red Sea at this point. Their tank failures and attitude about it just don’t sit well with me

Okay, off my soapbox

 

[BryanM]

I really like TM Pro and NYOS salt. Instant Ocean Purple, Reef Crystals, and both Red Sea are my least favorite salts. I found them all to be dirty and inconsistent batch to batch.

On principle, I don’t buy anything Red Sea at this point. Their tank failures and attitude about it just don’t sit well with me

Okay, off my soapbox

I am the same. I still have redsea products, but they will eventually be replaced by some other vendor. The most expensive of which are 4 reefled90's. Ugh. But one has to die first, and they are fairly new.

 

[mjszos]

I really like TM Pro and NYOS salt. Instant Ocean Purple, Reef Crystals, and both Red Sea are my least favorite salts. I found them all to be dirty and inconsistent batch to batch.

On principle, I don’t buy anything Red Sea at this point. Their tank failures and attitude about it just don’t sit well with me

Okay, off my soapbox

I get it, and as someone who was personally affected by a tank seam I can get behind that. I'm not interested in brigading against them because I frankly don't care, but I don't intend on buying more of their equipment as time goes on... However I am full in on the ecosystem (skimmer, roller, pumps, ATO, etc). As they die off, they'll be replaced with other stuff.

 

[Dom]

This is wrong. More Carbon dioxide (lower pH) reduces precipitation.

The answer is phosphate and organics in a reef tank poison the seed crystals that would normally precipitate calcium carbonate.

To be clear; that was AI's answer, not mine.

 

[areefer01]

Basically the title - why does some salt indicate to not "overmix"

Isn't it functionally being perpetually "mixed" once it enters the tank following a water change? What would be the adverse side effect to leaving a pump mixing salt perpetually in a container, is this not fundamentally the same as when it's added to your tank and is constantly being turned over with the other 90% of water volume you combined it with?

I'll be that person. Did you happen to reach out to the vendor and ask them? Curioius.

 

[mjszos]

I'll be that person. Did you happen to reach out to the vendor and ask them? Curioius.

No, which would have been the "correct" first step. But frankly I've long since given up getting any kind of meaningful information from Red Sea support, I've had nothing but poor experiences with it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'll be that person. Did you happen to reach out to the vendor and ask them? Curioius.

Red Sea has publicly explained it and shown their own videos of the precipitation. There’s no uncertainty of the reason.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I will also add that I personally reached out to Red Sea tech support to explain the problems I saw with the mixing comments. What I got back was blatantly wrong:

Good afternoon,
Mixing the salt with high agitation at the water surface increases the amount of Co2 that evaporates from the water causing an increase in both pH and alkalinity that enhances the chance of precipitation.

 

[areefer01]

No, which would have been the "correct" first step. But frankly I've long since given up getting any kind of meaningful information from Red Sea support, I've had nothing but poor experiences with it.

By no means judging or slamming. Sorry if I sounded that way. I was honestly asking is all and wondering about their reply.

 

[mjszos]

By no means judging or slamming. Sorry if I sounded that way. I was honestly asking is all and wondering about their reply.

Absolutely didn't take it that way, I've had very poor experiences with their support in the past. They have outright lied to me, and strung me along until an issue was out of warranty at which point they failed to continue the engagement.

Randy as indicated above did the legwork though and is infinitely more qualified than I to disseminate any information they provide.

 

[areefer01]

Red Sea has publicly explained it and shown their own videos of the precipitation. There’s no uncertainty of the reason.

I see. I do not use the salt but was curious as I mentioned above. Thank you.