Do You Have an Apex with an FMM? -- Please Read This

[o2manyfish]

I would like to thank Neptune Systems for one again putting my entire system at risk by trusting their products. I have an FMM - Which was a great product till 2 firmwares ago which made the FMM a useless 'toy'. What good are flow meters that at will convert to optical switches? Then last week a new firmware - that 'should' correct the FMM issues. I followed all the instructions and did the updates -- But still not 100% reliable - So I have no programming related to the FMM's. This morning another user posted regarding his FMM shutting off last night. I checked mine, and in fact one of my FMM's had done the same thing. And this morning I had a "NEW" tile which was a Virtual outlet I had created 4 months ago. A few mins ago = I walk past my tank and say - What the &*&(* my main pump is shut off. My system is 1300g and I am running an Abyzz A200 - If I had working Flow sensors this should not have been a surprise - and in fact the system was designed to fix this issue should the main pump fail. The surprise was when I went and checked the Abyzz- the Abyzz is on but not pumping water. Stupid me purchased the Abyzz / Apex interface. The NEW Virtual outlet in Fusion this morning --- That's my old virtual outlet that was used to slow down the Abyzz for maintenance - Apex/Fusion converted a Virtual outlet a digital switch on the FMM. Yes the FMM that went offline last night, the FMM that shows as being disconnected currently - but has an active switch that shut off the return pump to my system..... I'm sure Neptune is going to put the blame on me and my complicated system--- I mean who doesn't know that it's normal for Aquarium Controllers to restructure, rename, redefine your programming while you sleep at night, all by itself.

 

[User1]

Sorry to hear. Did this happen after the recent AOS 5.05 7C19?

 

[o2manyfish]

Saf1,

The FMM's started resetting the ports from flow meters to optical switches 1 or 2 firmwares before 7C19. And these were ports configured manually.

Why they have an option for "Auto Detect" when it can't detect flow sensors is beyond me and they should grey that out until it actually works.

So it was taking manually configured Flow Sensors and switching them to optical sensors -- the 7C19 firmware claimed to resolve it.

But now a disconnected FMM converting a Virtual Outlet -- That's a new one.

And even more disconcerting is that the Virtual Outlet - which is now a Digital Switch - which is 'supposedly' connected to a disconnected module - is showing as being in the ON state which is why it triggered the Abyzz to shut off.

The number of levels where this issue is potentially tank destroying is unbelievable --


Dave B

 

[o2manyfish]

As an addendum to my post - I originally posted on the Facebook Neptune User's group - Neptune has DELETED the post warning people about this potential issue.

Dave B

 

[User1]

As an addendum to my post - I originally posted on the Facebook Neptune User's group - Neptune has DELETED the post warning people about this potential issue.

Dave B

Wonder what the reaction would be in the "offical" Neptune forums or if others are seeing this.

Edit: Not in this forum, I mean the ones managed by Neptune. Also did you fire a ticket off to them? Curious what the reply is.

 

[o2manyfish]

Wonder what the reaction would be in the "offical" Neptune forums or if others are seeing this.

Edit: Not in this forum, I mean the ones managed by Neptune. Also did you fire a ticket off to them? Curious what the reply is.

Firing tickets off to Neptune when it's an issue with their product and not user error is fruitless. They say we will send it to engineering and then one day the issue gets fixed in a firmware.

Dave B

 

[Snookin]

If you are looking to sell the Apex my buddy is new in the hobby and looking for one.

 

[o2manyfish]

Do you not like your buddy?

Dave B

 

[Snookin]

Do you not like your buddy?

Dave B

Lol. If you honestly hate it that much sell and get a GHL. You are like a self masochist if you want to complain but not change. APEX have resale value and you could be happier with another brand like GHL.

 

[User1]

Do you not like your buddy?

Dave B

Lol. That made me giggle. Sorry Dave. Probably not the way you wanted to start your day.

How is the system going? I enjoyed the drone video you did a few weeks back.

 

[o2manyfish]

As a positive update - Neptune Support called me and we had a long detailed conversation to try to find out what might be causing the issue(s).

Dave B

 

[o2manyfish]

Lol. If you honestly hate it that much sell and get a GHL. You are like a self masochist if you want to complain but not change. APEX have resale value and you could be happier with another brand like GHL.

I love this approach from people -- I invested my time and money in a product. It doesn't do what it's supposed to do. So that's my fault, I should sell and start over again with another company.

Companies aren't required to make products that do what they are supposed to?

It's somehow my fault that I bought something, installed it correctly, it works, and then the manufacturer makes a firmware change that in turn renders the previously functioning product worthless. And I shouldn't expect them to resolve it timely? I shouldn't expect that when they release a firmware correcting the issue that it should correct it?

And this isn't about the flow sensors not working, it's that in the middle of the night without anything changing, the device made a change....

But I shouldn't be allowed to be upset by that?

Dave B

 

[Snookin]

I love this approach from people -- I invested my time and money in a product. It doesn't do what it's supposed to do. So that's my fault, I should sell and start over again with another company.

Companies aren't required to make products that do what they are supposed to?

It's somehow my fault that I bought something, installed it correctly, it works, and then the manufacturer makes a firmware change that in turn renders the previously functioning product worthless. And I shouldn't expect them to resolve it timely? I shouldn't expect that when they release a firmware correcting the issue that it should correct it?

And this isn't about the flow sensors not working, it's that in the middle of the night without anything changing, the device made a change....

But I shouldn't be allowed to be upset by that?

Dave B

I never said it was your fault. If you don’t like a product buy something else. Like I said APEXs do have solid resale value. So, if you wanted to make the switch you could recoup some costs and transition to a new brand.

 

[ca1ore]

I worry about this kind of stuff all the time, particularly as I push the envelope on the apex (just added my 31st module). I have long preferred mine to just monitor/alert, which it does mostly; but I do also have some controlled items.

 

[ZoWhat]

Ultimately you are responsible for the husbandry of your own tank.

Neptune products are aids.... bottomline. Neptune is not a magical jeanie that will do all the work for you. Hence you should know their limitations and have a solid backup plan in place

Firmware updates for computers to routers to phones to smart TVs to anything that has ROM chips.... will not be 100% effective across all equipment. Too many individual factors involved.

30 yrs experience in IT has taught me a firmware update to ROM chips may affect individual equipment differently. Even in a closed, proprietary system such as Neptunes.


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[o2manyfish]

Not that it should matter, but here is pic of my main display tank. I have a pair of Spawning Goldflake Angels in this tank (only pair to be caught spawning in captivity). And there are some other unusual fish in this tank. To come downstairs and find the return pump turned off by something that wasn't supposed to turn the pump off is upsetting.

And attached to this tank are (2) 180g frag tanks outside. Which also have some only 1 in this world fish (Google "Rabbi Tang").

I take my livestock responsibilities seriously. The system is designed with (2) identical Abyzz pumps. In the event that either pump stops pumping, one motorized ball valve opens and either pump takes over the job of both pumps. Both Abyzz pumps are on independent 220v circuits. They are wired using 220v contactors - This means the only way to shut off one of my Abyzz pumps is to actually turn an outlet on. Should the controller go up in flames -- the pumps will keep running.

And there is a whole house generator with an Autotransfer switch that comes on within 15 seconds - dual fuel - for a minimum of 3 days run time.

I'm taking every precaution I can to protect my livestock. But all these protections are worthless if something is playing paddy cake with your system.

Skimjim and Ca1ore - -I whole heartedly agree with both of you. In this instance the Virtual outlet that got switched over and shut off the pump was created to activate turn on as a mechanical push button on a BOB. I was not relying on the Apex to make decisions or theoretically be controlling the pump.

Dave B

 

[User1]

Love your tank @o2manyfish - one that I always use as a reference for what I'd like mine to look like as it matures. I also admire that you treat the fish like a pet rather than like a commodity. Challenge and love for the hobby. Not to make a buck.

 

[o2manyfish]

Saf1,

Thank you. Much Appreciated.

Dave B

 

[Kjames]

As a positive update - Neptune Support called me and we had a long detailed conversation to try to find out what might be causing the issue(s).

Dave B

Did you ever find a solution? My FMM is doing the same thing. Haven't contacted support yet.