Insane and unstable over 1 year.

[exnisstech]

I remember you from before. your name is funny grumpy like me

Ya but now instead of participating when someone asks for help they don't want I find it less frustrating to just sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Where is the data to back up the dino x working in your exact case? Why are you so adament the dino x will work ?

Im not arguing i dont have a dog in this fight its your tank nothing you do will affect me im just trying to understand where the full on dedication to dino x is coming from.

I don’t have data to prove it works for everyone. I do know it worked for me, I also know it’s used by companies that maintain million dollar home aquaria. That to me sounds like the product isn’t as risky as it’s being suggested if they are willing to dump it into million dollar reefs.

The product was created in a lab and therefore it was studied and proven by that study to work for what it is designed to do. That I know is fact.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Ya but now instead of participating when someone asks for help they don't want I find it less frustrating to just sit back and enjoy the show.

I want help, I want help that is
scientifically backed. That’s all I’m asking for and no one can produce that thus far. So here we are. Personal experiences are not proven facts. That’s the argument I have here .

 

[Keeper5221]

I dont think anyone here is saying the product is bad , they are saying its bad for you. In a established tank killing off the dinos with chemicals will have them replaced with other microfauna thats what it is to have a thriving ecosystem. In your case all you have is dinos so you kill the dinos and guess what u miss some and since your tank is not established all you have left to grow back is more dinos. Nothing you do will eradicated dinos from your system 100%.

Goodluck with your tank it seems like you have already made up your mind with how to proceed.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

I dont think anyone here is saying the product is bad , they are saying its bad for you. In a established tank killing off the dinos with chemicals will have them replaced with other microfauna thats what it is to have a thriving ecosystem. In your case all you have is dinos so you kill the dinos and guess what u miss some and since your tank is not established all you have left to grow back is more dinos. Nothing you do will eradicated dinos from your system 100%.

Goodluck with your tank it seems like you have already made up your mind with how to proceed.

I will heed peoples warnings and tread carefully. I just do not have the time to fiddle with the aquarium for months and months again with 0 results.

I understand what you’re saying about the fauna part. That makes logical sense. But I saw an explosion of nice green algae , corraline and pods AFTER dino x treatment that I never saw WITH dino present.

I also removed shells and added them to the 10 gallon to cycle them. Perhaps now that I think about it….. I may have removed a lot of beneficial things to cycle the 10 gallon……..

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

I dont think anyone here is saying the product is bad , they are saying its bad for you. In a established tank killing off the dinos with chemicals will have them replaced with other microfauna thats what it is to have a thriving ecosystem. In your case all you have is dinos so you kill the dinos and guess what u miss some and since your tank is not established all you have left to grow back is more dinos. Nothing you do will eradicated dinos from your system 100%.

Goodluck with your tank it seems like you have already made up your mind with how to proceed.

That might be why the 10 gallon is so stable…..I totally forgot that I did that actually. Ugh now I feel really stupid. I some some rocks and rubble shells and filter pads and added them to the 10 gallon to cycle it and left everything in there. And that’s actually when the 30 began having some issues.


Crap. I also took a small bag of established seachem matrix from the 30 and added it to the filter of the 10z

 

[Lavey29]

I did that last time and the diatoms didn’t do a darn thing. I tried ALL the advice from others here for what? 6 months or more? And it did nothing for my aquarium and I spent a lot of money to have 0 results.

That’s why I question people’s advice here. Their experience isn’t going to be the same as mine it’s that simple. I appreciate advice I don’t appreciate people telling me what to do without scientific proof it works. I did that, it got me no where but the worst mess I’ve ever seen in an aquarium last time.


From silica, UV filters, MicroBacter, other bacteria’s, probiotics, PODS, raising nitrate and phos. Did that for 6 months and got nowhere but the biggest mess I’d seen. That’s when I caved and bought dino x.

That’s the back story here and that’s why I’m not as trusting of personal advice anymore without scientific data. Some even here say high nitrates and phos name it worse others say it makes it better. Like there is not actual data that says what is and isn’t factually true it’s a bunch of reckless hobbyists giving advice and making things worse for people.

Well you have to maintain nitrates and phosphate levels at sufficient numbers if you have corals even if it also feeds dinos or your corals will struggle and slowly die off.

Are you certain about your dino ID large cell? Silicate will be effective but these are not overnight bandaid fixes like dino x. These remedies take time, weeks, month etc... remember patience is the number one key factor to success here and a one year tank can certainly still be unstable and unpredictable. All you can do is go with what you feel is best for your situation but honestly harsh chemicals might give a little fix but open the door to.more long term problems which is probably why your first attempt using dino x did not solve your situation. Take your time, you can beat this problem.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Well you have to maintain nitrates and phosphate levels at sufficient numbers if you have corals even if it also feeds dinos or your corals will struggle and slowly die off.

Are you certain about your dino ID large cell? Silicate will be effective but these are not overnight bandaid fixes like dino x. These remedies take time, weeks, month etc... remember patience is the number one key factor to success here and a one year tank can certainly still be unstable and unpredictable. All you can do is go with what you feel is best for your situation but honestly harsh chemicals might give a little fix but open the door to.more long term problems which is probably why your first attempt using dino x did not solve your situation. Take your time, you can beat this problem.

I forgot that I did a lot more to destabilise it when staring up the 10 I removed filter pads, a bag of established matrix, and pretty much all shells and coral rubble from the sand bed to establish the 10 faster.

I think when doing that I remove a lot at once from the 30. I totally forgot I did that until this moment. That’s when issue began again and this clear crap began growing in the rocks. I don’t think it was the iodide dosing at all now.

I think I removed a lot of beneficial things when removing all of that.

 

[Lavey29]

I forgot that I did a lot more to destabilise it when staring up the 10 I removed filter pads, a bag of established matrix, and pretty much all shells and coral rubble from the sand bed to establish the 10 faster.

I think when doing that I remove a lot at once from the 30. I totally forgot I did that until this moment. That’s when issue began again and this clear crap began growing in the rocks. I don’t think it was the iodide dosing at all now.

I think I removed a lot of beneficial things when removing all of that.

Perhaps but the vast majority of your good bacteria is in your rocks and sand in your DT.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Perhaps but the vast majority of your good bacteria is in your rocks and sand in your DT.

Yes that’s what I thought that’s why I didn’t think it would be an issue to remove all of that. However, that’s when things began to change when I look back now and think of what occurred I totally forgot.

I’ve been in Aquaria for over 15 years now. However, in freshwater. So I know about the BB and where it resides. I also know that it can destabilise a system to remove so much at once but I didn’t think I took too much out tbh. Freshwater rebounds fast though not sure if saltwater does too.

I know people think I’m being argumentative I’m just wanting a definitive answer at this point. I will try dino x this time again, if it occurs again I will try all the advice from others again starting with silica dosing again and then MicroBacter pods etc.


Praying it won’t happen again. It’s my fault I wasn’t diligent monitoring the nitrates and phosphates…. That’s my fault. They dropped I had no idea until the macro I added began dying yet was thriving in the 10 gallon. I added the macro to attack what I thought was hair alage so I thought it must have been a high nutrient issue not low. Then the macro began going clear rapidly. Tested and found it was 0 again. Added neonitro and neophos and it became green again.

That’s when crap got bad after dosing to traceable amounts it got much worse so fast over night

 

[CHSUB]

This is where I get my information on dinoflagellate, it’s written by J. Sprung a marine biologist. Get the book, follow the advice, and you won’t have to ask for advice…

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Hey, Not that my opinion or experience equals to a certified Marine Biologist. This is just my suggestion and only hope to help.

I’ve skimmed through these pages, and it’s full of frustration, so skimmed is being used loosely. Dinos and other nuisance algae’s can be very frustrating and I hope you can get past the situation.

What I would do in if I was in this situation, which I’ve been in before, I think it stems from dry rock btw.

First, I believe you are seeing low nutrient is due to the algae’s consuming them quickly. Thus test results are showing up low.
To treat the system, I would do a series of Blackout, scrubbing rock with a toothbrush, consistent sock changes, mini water changes and obtaining some real live sand from the ocean.

Depending on how aggressive you want to go, my humble opinion would be to scrub rocks daily and allow the water to cycle and clear through your socks. Change socks and do a small water change.

If this is a bit much, you could do a scrub, change socks, water change followed by a 2-3 day black out. Before returning lights back on, scrub, change socks, small water change. Continue with scrubs, sock/water changes every 2-3 days. For the next month. If the rock is “clean” after the initial scrub/black out use a turkey baster to clean the rocks before the sock/ water change and use the brush on any new growth as needed.

Again I will say that I skimmed this thread, but I believe it was mentioned that this is a 30g AIO system? UV systems for this size tank in my opinion are kind of silly unless you are running a separate feed pump to know what you rate things are going through.


I recommend some real ocean live sand as it contains so much bacteria to help out compete algae and help the bacterial “ slime” coat your rocks. I am not sure how easy it is to get sand in Canada similar to Aqua-Biomics or Tamp Bay Saltwater products. The bagged stuff on most shelves and bottled stuff is very limited and great for helping start the path to a mature reef, but just a starting point. Additions of Pods can help as well, little mouths eating the tiny bits is always good.

I really do wish you luck on this fight, it can kill your day when the tank is an eye sore. Take a breath, get your hands wet, it’s just a temporary road bump. In the meantime I would refrain from purchasing any corals or adding some finned friends. This is a bit of a more natural approach and getting the chemicals out of your tank. Looking forward to seeing that puffer in pictures with a stunning backdrop. All of the best

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Hey, Not that my opinion or experience equals to a certified Marine Biologist. This is just my suggestion and only hope to help.

I’ve skimmed through these pages, and it’s full of frustration, so skimmed is being used loosely. Dinos and other nuisance algae’s can be very frustrating and I hope you can get past the situation.

What I would do in if I was in this situation, which I’ve been in before, I think it stems from dry rock btw.

First, I believe you are seeing low nutrient is due to the algae’s consuming them quickly. Thus test results are showing up low.
To treat the system, I would do a series of Blackout, scrubbing rock with a toothbrush, consistent sock changes, mini water changes and obtaining some real live sand from the ocean.

Depending on how aggressive you want to go, my humble opinion would be to scrub rocks daily and allow the water to cycle and clear through your socks. Change socks and do a small water change.

If this is a bit much, you could do a scrub, change socks, water change followed by a 2-3 day black out. Before returning lights back on, scrub, change socks, small water change. Continue with scrubs, sock/water changes every 2-3 days. For the next month. If the rock is “clean” after the initial scrub/black out use a turkey baster to clean the rocks before the sock/ water change and use the brush on any new growth as needed.

Again I will say that I skimmed this thread, but I believe it was mentioned that this is a 30g AIO system? UV systems for this size tank in my opinion are kind of silly unless you are running a separate feed pump to know what you rate things are going through.


I recommend some real ocean live sand as it contains so much bacteria to help out compete algae and help the bacterial “ slime” coat your rocks. I am not sure how easy it is to get sand in Canada similar to Aqua-Biomics or Tamp Bay Saltwater products. The bagged stuff on most shelves and bottled stuff is very limited and great for helping start the path to a mature reef, but just a starting point. Additions of Pods can help as well, little mouths eating the tiny bits is always good.

I really do wish you luck on this fight, it can kill your day when the tank is an eye sore. Take a breath, get your hands wet, it’s just a temporary road bump. In the meantime I would refrain from purchasing any corals or adding some finned friends. This is a bit of a more natural approach and getting the chemicals out of your tank. Looking forward to seeing that puffer in pictures with a stunning backdrop. All of the best

Just one anecdotal thing/question, did you start this system with dry rock? The white stuff (mined) or the manmade purple stuff? Either one consistently and notoriously has an extremely long maturity rate. The man made stuff is dense and retards the penetration of the bacteria to the core, and the mined white stuff has thousands of years of rainwater and pollutants that have passed through it. It takes some time for that stuff to leach out and bacteria to colonize deep within. Also, very dense as well and lacking the porosity of classic Live Rock ( old coral) from the old days. It’s just lime rock that is “pitted” due to water erosion. This stuff can take excess of 1.5 years to really mature and allow those bacteria to colonize deep in its core. In the meantime it is leaching the contaminants ( PO4 and what ever else) into your water and feeding the algae.

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop. Sorry, aging myself but definitely applicable in a joking manner to this.

Of course it is suitable for reefing, it just takes a bit longer to see the benefits and mature. There is light at the end of the algae tunnel

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Hey, Not that my opinion or experience equals to a certified Marine Biologist. This is just my suggestion and only hope to help.

I’ve skimmed through these pages, and it’s full of frustration, so skimmed is being used loosely. Dinos and other nuisance algae’s can be very frustrating and I hope you can get past the situation.

What I would do in if I was in this situation, which I’ve been in before, I think it stems from dry rock btw.

First, I believe you are seeing low nutrient is due to the algae’s consuming them quickly. Thus test results are showing up low.
To treat the system, I would do a series of Blackout, scrubbing rock with a toothbrush, consistent sock changes, mini water changes and obtaining some real live sand from the ocean.

Depending on how aggressive you want to go, my humble opinion would be to scrub rocks daily and allow the water to cycle and clear through your socks. Change socks and do a small water change.

If this is a bit much, you could do a scrub, change socks, water change followed by a 2-3 day black out. Before returning lights back on, scrub, change socks, small water change. Continue with scrubs, sock/water changes every 2-3 days. For the next month. If the rock is “clean” after the initial scrub/black out use a turkey baster to clean the rocks before the sock/ water change and use the brush on any new growth as needed.

Again I will say that I skimmed this thread, but I believe it was mentioned that this is a 30g AIO system? UV systems for this size tank in my opinion are kind of silly unless you are running a separate feed pump to know what you rate things are going through.


I recommend some real ocean live sand as it contains so much bacteria to help out compete algae and help the bacterial “ slime” coat your rocks. I am not sure how easy it is to get sand in Canada similar to Aqua-Biomics or Tamp Bay Saltwater products. The bagged stuff on most shelves and bottled stuff is very limited and great for helping start the path to a mature reef, but just a starting point. Additions of Pods can help as well, little mouths eating the tiny bits is always good.

I really do wish you luck on this fight, it can kill your day when the tank is an eye sore. Take a breath, get your hands wet, it’s just a temporary road bump. In the meantime I would refrain from purchasing any corals or adding some finned friends. This is a bit of a more natural approach and getting the chemicals out of your tank. Looking forward to seeing that puffer in pictures with a stunning backdrop. All of the best

Hi you are on to something about the algae consuming it all. I agree that must be the issue.

I can’t get live sand here. It’s just not possible. My province has many regulations on taking sand from oceans etc. probably can’t even import that here sadly. Getting ocean rock was a once in a life time option I had for the 10 gallon.

I tried blackouts last time and it didn’t work but it really impacted my corals.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

This is where I get my information on dinoflagellate, it’s written by J. Sprung a marine biologist. Get the book, follow the advice, and you won’t have to ask for advice…

I’m sure it has extended knowledge yet nothing backed by science. People write books all the time doesn’t means it’s 100% credible. There are books on a lot of controversial topics people saying not to do things proven to work and save lives. So I can’t just trust a book written by god knows who with what kind of agenda

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Just one anecdotal thing/question, did you start this system with dry rock? The white stuff (mined) or the manmade purple stuff? Either one consistently and notoriously has an extremely long maturity rate. The man made stuff is dense and retards the penetration of the bacteria to the core, and the mined white stuff has thousands of years of rainwater and pollutants that have passed through it. It takes some time for that stuff to leach out and bacteria to colonize deep within. Also, very dense as well and lacking the porosity of classic Live Rock ( old coral) from the old days. It’s just lime rock that is “pitted” due to water erosion. This stuff can take excess of 1.5 years to really mature and allow those bacteria to colonize deep in its core. In the meantime it is leaching the contaminants ( PO4 and what ever else) into your water and feeding the algae.

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop. Sorry, aging myself but definitely applicable in a joking manner to this.

Of course it is suitable for reefing, it just takes a bit longer to see the benefits and mature. There is light at the end of the algae tunnel

I used the man made rock! It’s all they have here it’s not good. The real ocean rock I got from the Pacific Ocean is so different.

The man made rock is what I used in the 30 and yes it’s crap and I paid a lot for it here in BC as it was in water and said to be “ready to use” and cured and full of ocean bacteria……

 

[KellyGee]

I’m sure it has extended knowledge yet nothing backed by science. People write books all the time doesn’t means it’s 100% credible. There are books on a lot of controversial topics people saying not to do things proven to work and save lives. So I can’t just trust a book written by god knows who with what kind of agenda

Good grief why are you even here on this forum? There are literal thousands of years of experience here, with so much data that they are freely giving away. There are few scientific studies done because there isn’t that much need for them as the hobbyists are doing it and offering their advice freely.

If you are going to ignore and argue with people that have been where you are and have overcome it, what is the point? You’ve been told multiple times what your issue is and how to fix it, yet you are steamrolling ahead with your own solution that hasn’t worked.

Freshwater and saltwater are completely different hobbies. Yes they’re both boxes of water with creatures in them, but that’s also like saying driving a car and flying a plane are the same because they’re both metal boxes with people in them.

You’ve gotten so much good advice here yet you’d rather argue because no one is agreeing with you. Your plan is flawed, you came here for help and you got it, but because it doesn’t align with what you think is correct you’re refusing to accept that you might be wrong.

Now I’ll go back to eating my popcorn and watching this thread.

 

[CHSUB]

So I can’t just trust a book written by god knows who with what kind of agenda

Ahhh…J. Sprung basically started the hobby, all his ‘opinions’ come from science and research. Everything in the book is footnoted with research documents. I’m sure you will figure your problem out, any further advice is falling on “deaf ears”.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Ahhh…J. Sprung basically started the hobby, all his ‘opinions’ come from science and research. Everything in the book is footnoted with research documents. I’m sure you will figure your problem out, any further advice is falling on “deaf ears”.

I don’t know who that is. “Jeanne Villepreux-Power” she created this hobby if were are being honest. And history favours that belief calling her the “Mother of Aquariophily”

I don’t disagree that the man you named is experienced but he didn’t start this hobby “basically” he graduated in 1988. What an insult to those whom actually started this beforehand.

Also, Egyptians had clay aquariums and ponds where they kept fish. What an utterly uneducated comment you wrote. That’s why I can’t trust your credibility if we are being honest. Just adds to my point that anyone can say anything online.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Good grief why are you even here on this forum? There are literal thousands of years of experience here, with so much data that they are freely giving away. There are few scientific studies done because there isn’t that much need for them as the hobbyists are doing it and offering their advice freely.

If you are going to ignore and argue with people that have been where you are and have overcome it, what is the point? You’ve been told multiple times what your issue is and how to fix it, yet you are steamrolling ahead with your own solution that hasn’t worked.

Freshwater and saltwater are completely different hobbies. Yes they’re both boxes of water with creatures in them, but that’s also like saying driving a car and flying a plane are the same because they’re both metal boxes with people in them.

You’ve gotten so much good advice here yet you’d rather argue because no one is agreeing with you. Your plan is flawed, you came here for help and you got it, but because it doesn’t align with what you think is correct you’re refusing to accept that you might be wrong.

Now I’ll go back to eating my popcorn and watching this thread.

Enjoy your popcorn. I call out BS when I hear it. I call out the things I tried that everyone told me to do that failed. Now they want me to try them again. Sorry makes no sense.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.