Is a complete list of ingredients available for Balling part C?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thats simply not an accurate statement. When I switched my dosing regimen from standard BRS to the hybrid balling method I removed my BRS magnesium solution and replaced it with the TM Part C solution. So, it DOES offset the magnesium consumption in a system. In the process, it also prevents an overdosing of sodium and chloride.

No, it doesn't. BRS has made multiple mistakes in discussing the hybrid. I've had to correct them.

This is the correct hybrid recipe, which does include the magnesium part 3 at a lower rate than the same recipe without Balling Part C).

DIY Three Part with Balling Part C Recipe

Notice: These DIY supplement recipes are simple and utilize a 1:1:1 dosing ratio to maintain proper alkalinity. For instance, if you need to dose 50 mL of the alkalinity solution daily, you should also dose 50 mL each of Part 2 and Part 3. Alkalinity (Choose One) Option 1: Sodium Carbonate...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Mels_Reef]

No matter how you want to dissect it, a reef’s 3 main components that are consumed at higher levels in relation to all other elements in the seawater is Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium. Period. However you want to chemically break it down into ions is irrelevant. Part C is the Magnesium portion of any standard dosing regime. It says it right in the website! Part C is Magnesium and Potassium

 

[Mels_Reef]

I believe my statement is correct for TM Original Balling method.

I am not sure what BRS does or did. I suspect the BRS Mg solution was acting like part C. I do not believe BRS develops systems, I believe they copy what Randy and others created.

For my system that has been running for 6+ years I have done zero Mg dosing. I used TM Original Balling method, AFR…

Randy wrote quite few articles on 2/3 part systems:

Hope the link to the article works:

Thread 'How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...cium-system-works-and-why-it-matters.1044570/

Hopefully Randy can comment if my understanding is incorrect.

If you were dosing part C you were dosing Magnesium!

 

[Reefering1]

I think what some people aren't grasping is that it's purpose is to offset the drop, after a salinity correction(that rises over time). Without it- as salinity creeps up over time and is then lowered, dropping the levels of everything else. Part c balances that out.
I'm running brs balling with a and k. It uses 4 dosers for the 3 parts and mg(dosed at 1/6 dose of parts a/b/c)

 

[Miami Reef]

If you were dosing part C you were dosing Magnesium!

Incorrect. Balling Part C offsets the dilution that would otherwise happen with regular 2 parts. It is not, and never will be, an additive solution.

That’s like saying you’ll add some artificial sea salt in your tank to raise your magnesium. It can’t because the salinity will go up and bringing it back down will leave you where you started.

The point of balling is to maintain the composition of seawater when using 2 parts.

 

[Pod_01]

If you were dosing part C you were dosing Magnesium!

No, it is not there to offset consumption.

If your reef consumes Mg or K you need to add it separately. Most reef tanks do not require Mg or K dosing.

Please read the article I provided, it explains a lot. It took me some time to fully understand the role of PartC.

I also assumed it was there to offset consumption.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think what some people aren't grasping is that it's purpose is to offset the drop, after a salinity correction(that rises over time). Without it- as salinity creeps up over time and is then lowered, dropping the levels of everything else. Part c balances that out.
I'm running brs balling with a and k. It uses 4 dosers for the 3 parts and mg(dosed at 1/6 dose of parts a/b/c)

Right.

For folks wanting a more detailed explanation, I cover that extensively in the article below. It's actually the "why it matters" part of the title.

How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters

How a Two Part Alkalinity and Calcium System Works, and Why it Matters By Randy Holmes-Farley This article is intended to help aquarists understand some of the important differences between the great variety of two and three part alkalinity and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Pod_01]

I think what some people aren't grasping is that it's purpose is to offset the drop, after a salinity correction

I have to confess, I was one of those people as well. Took a long while for my light bulb to go on and I still have to re read some of Randy’s articles about 2/3 part dosing.

 

[Reefering1]

I have to confess, I was one of those people as well. Took a long while for my light bulb to go on and I still have to re read some of Randy’s articles about 2/3 part dosing.

Me too!
It seems more obvious once I consider that I'm only adding 7 1/4 scoops, with the little scooper provided, to a gallon of rodi. Then that gallon is dosed in unison with parts a and b. So after a gallon of alk/calcium consumption, tank gets less than 1/2 a cup of part c vs 1lb each of a and b. It's insignificant for supplementing consumption.

That's a Hanna calcium reagent bottle for size reference of scooper.

 

[AKReefing]

I just measured. 1 level scoop = 25 grams.

 

[Reefering1]

I just measured. 1 level scoop = 25 grams.

Any chance you can weigh a gallon mix worth of a and b? I was just guessing a pound...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Any chance you can weigh a gallon mix worth of a and b? I was just guessing a pound...

We can calculate it’s weight easily, but what is it useful for?

 

[AKReefing]

The irony is that ICP tests don't test for anything near 70 elements, so how can we know they're on the level? Most seem to test for less than 40.

 

[Reefering1]

We can calculate it’s weight easily, but what is it useful for?

To compare how much part c goes into tank after a gallon of alk/ ca consumption, illustrating how insignificant part c would be to supplementing demand.

 

[AKReefing]

Any chance you can weigh a gallon mix worth of a and b? I was just guessing a pound...

I weighed a gallon's worth of the following:
Calcium chloride - 500 grams for high purity (94-97%)
Sodium hydroxide - 283 grams
3/4 cup of Epsom -175 grams
7 1/4 cups of Magnesium chloride hexahydrate - 1450 grams
TM Balling part C - 183 grams

 

[AKReefing]

The irony is that ICP tests don't test for anything near 70 elements, so how can we know they're on the level? Most seem to test for less than 40.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The irony is that ICP tests don't test for anything near 70 elements, so how can we know they're on the level? Most seem to test for less than 40.

Same goes for salt mixes. Are you agonizing over those?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To compare how much part c goes into tank after a gallon of alk/ ca consumption, illustrating how insignificant part c would be to supplementing demand.

Well, it’s known how much and for magnesium, it’s actually more than consumption would be for the same amount of alk and calcium consumed.

I discuss that exact issue in designing my diy:

Residual Ions from the Calcium and Alkalinity Parts

Adding 1 gallon of each of these additives will result in a residue of ions remaining after calcification. These are mostly sodium and chloride, and the amounts of those two added are equal in numbers (i.e., moles), but slightly different in weight-based concentrations such as ppm because they do not weigh the same.

After adding 594 grams of baking soda (1 gallon of Recipe #1), we will have added 163 grams of sodium. In natural seawater, magnesium is present at about 12.0% of the sodium concentration (by weight). In order to match the magnesium additions to the sodium additions to leave them in a natural ratio, we need to add 12% of 163 grams, or 19.5 grams, of magnesium for every gallon of the two-part additive that we add.

Additionally, we may want to account for magnesium that is actually incorporated into the coral skeletons. For this calculation, I have assumed that the amount of magnesium incorporated is about 6.5% of the calcium level (by weight), or about 2.5% of the skeleton by weight. In the course of adding this gallon of both parts of the two part supplement, we added 141 grams of calcium, so we need to add 0.065 x 141 = 9 grams of magnesium to account for this deposition.

The magnesium parts of the recipe are designed to add enough magnesium so that it is not depleted by either of the two means described above. Because the magnesium supplement (either version) is 47,000 mg/L in magnesium, we need to add (9 +19.5) grams/47 g/L = 610 ml of the magnesium solution for each gallon of the other parts of Recipe #1.

 

[rtparty]

I’m not concerned in the least if Part C was designed to replenish Mg and K or not. I can tell you that after 2 years of running the Balling Hybrid system, I never once dosed Mg or K to my old 250 and I was going through 2.5 to 3dkh a day for the last 6+ months of the tanks life. I had a Trident testing the big 3 daily and Mg never dropped. I simply matched my Part C dose to my alkalinity dose. Didn’t even follow directions.

To make it even more confusing, I didn’t even change water in the tank for the first 12 months. So Mg replenishment was coming from somewhere.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m not concerned in the least if Part C was designed to replenish Mg and K or not. I can tell you that after 2 years of running the Balling Hybrid system, I never once dosed Mg or K to my old 250 and I was going through 2.5 to 3dkh a day for the last 6+ months of the tanks life. I had a Trident testing the big 3 daily and Mg never dropped. I simply matched my Part C dose to my alkalinity dose. Didn’t even follow directions.

To make it even more confusing, I didn’t even change water in the tank for the first 12 months. So Mg replenishment was coming from somewhere.

Potassium does not necessarily deplete. It never did in my system.

Don’t know what to say about magnesium, but if you didn’t use part C, it would drop a lot even without any consumption.