Is it possible for Alkalinity to rise in a stable system by adding Aquaforest man made rock to sump?

[A_Blind_Reefer]

It sucks when a simple rock throws out the stability your worked hard for. Who would expect a small rock to add alkalinity? So frustrating. I feel for you.

I know, right? Who would have thought? Wasn’t even on my radar.

 

[Miami Reef]

Your tank looks awesome!! How come I’ve never seen a picture of it?

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Your tank looks awesome!! How come I’ve never seen a picture of it?

I take horrible pictures. Tremors and not being able to know if it’s in focus. Tank could be cleaned up a bit, but that’s a task I can’t handle. Every time I stick my hand in, I break things. If they’re big enough to find, I glue them to a disc and putty them anywhere I can. Small pieces fall where they land. There’s a lot of the same thing all over. I neglected it for a solid year, maybe a little more, when I slipped into depression with my health. It was completely overrun with Aiptasia at one point. I’ve been trying to nurse it back the best I can. I think it’s getting there. It’s not easy for me though and I get frusterated with myself a lot…and that’s without help from random alk swings! Ha

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

@A_Blind_Reefer I've offered before, I'm only a few minutes away if ever you need anything.

@Miami Reef don't let him fool you, his tank is really nice.

 

[twentyleagues]

Keep on keeping on! The tank looks good montis covering the sand bed. That pic is of the same quality as mine and I dont have a reason! lol. Good job.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

@A_Blind_Reefer I've offered before, I'm only a few minutes away if ever you need anything.

@Miami Reef don't let him fool you, his tank is really nice.

Thanks, that’s awesome of you! I’m still a knothead! Admittedly, tank looks much better without that crazy stubborn film algae. I still love that blade upgrade. I figured out that I could use the flipper outer magnet with the tunze scraper and that helps me keep things square, so I’m missing a lot less when I clean now.

I probably should have asked you for help with rock….something I didn’t think would be an issue, and I should have been able to handle on my own! Nope.. I saw quote base rock and went for it. I prefer the flat base pieces as I’m a bit nervous of cracking glass not being able to tell where I’m at. The flat gives me a physical reference and I know if I drop it, or place it a bit roughly, that the load is spread and the chance of something bad happening is reduced. If I were smart, I would have lined the sump with abs (like the display) or eggcrate. Live and forget

 

[AlexandraDreadlocksPanda]

I’ve yet to see any created rock that I would want to use in my system. When building the aquascape for mine I managed to source 50kg of Tonga plate and branch from a tank shutdown… It had sky high Nitrate and Phosphate, so I just spent a couple of months stripping it in vats with a big skimmer and carbon dosing the hell out of it, then when Nitrates were at Zero Lanthanum addition… Then managed to get hold of 10kg of genuine Fiji live rock from a dealer that had it stored and no-one wanted any more, got loads of hitch hikers (MEN’s, Zoanthid eating Asterina’s and Aiptasia… )
Easily dealt with and the benefits far outweigh the negatives…

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I don't know what that would be that is consistent with a pH rise. CO2 release would lower pH. Trapped air would be a minor process.

So out of curiosity now, what could they possibly put in/or make this rock out of that fits in with their claim of stabilizing both kh and ph? I didn’t know about this claim before, but I’d certainly like to know. My non-scientific brain can’t comprehend it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So out of curiosity now, what could they possibly put in/or make this rock out of that fits in with their claim of stabilizing both kh and ph? I didn’t know about this claim before, but I’d certainly like to know. My non-scientific brain can’t comprehend it.

Can you post the exact claim you are talking about?

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Can you post the exact claim you are talking about?

Thoroughly tested product for optimal water quality, coral growth, and microbial Balance​

The product was thoroughly tested in the laboratory, doesn’t release undesired chemicals into the water. It stabilizes the pH and KH of water, which greatly facilitates the calcification of skeletons and allows faster growth of corals, which in stable parameters build harder and healthier skeletons. It facilitates the settlement of beneficial microorganisms and significantly shortens the process of maturation of the aquarium, especially when using Bio S bacteria. It quickly covers with the desired in the aquarium coralline algae. In a freshwater aquarium, AF Rock can only be used in water with pH level above 7.0. Rinse rock in RO water before placing in tank. Due to the high porosity, the rock may break during transport, the rock fragments should be joined using Stone Fix.

AF ROCK MAY BE ALSO USED IN FUNCTIONING TANKS.

AF Rock - Aquaforest

AF Rock by Aquaforest: natural and aesthetic rocks for aquarium arrangements that create a stable and attractive environment for corals and fish. Natural and safe for marine organisms composition.

aquaforest.eu

Taken from a reef builders article:

Hand made and sprayed in Poland​

How most man-made reef rocks are made remains a closely guarded secret, but not for Aquaforest, who gave us a sneak peek of their rock manufacturing plant in Poland, courtesy of YouTube. There we see a white cement-like substance being used to make their AF Frag Rock coral bases but also being hand-formed into piles mixed with porous stones, colored with a “natural” dye, then pressure washed to remove any dust and stacked up to dry.

Aquaforest frontman Seweryn Lukasiewicz tells us what those lightweight, porous stones in the rock are too – they’re Life Bio-Fil, the company’s own biological filter media, which is a nice touch when creating artificial rock that you want to become biologically active and “live.” It has the added effect of bulking the rock out too, giving it a high mass in relation to its weight, and offering lots of reassuring rock for your buck.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

The more I read….(but not from one singular source, it’s sprinkled about in different places on the web)

So the man made rock has their “life bio-fil” media inside. It’s a porous substance with “freeze dried” nitrifying and de-nitrifying bacteria strains that activate when placed in water.

The product page for the life bio-fill media states it needs to be replaced every so often. How do you do that when it’s inside a rock?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This part sounds like putting a good face in what you observed:

. It stabilizes the pH and KH of water, which greatly facilitates the calcification of skeletons

 

[twentyleagues]

With the freshwater comment and the "stabilization" of the ph and alk sound like it is "designed" to erode a bit adding elements to the water less so at typical reef levels but still. In low ph freshwater my guess is it eventually raises the ph/alk to high or becomes mush. Kinda scary. The Caribsea life rock that I got a while back was a mix of aggracrete and real "marco" style rock mostly the latter. I only knew this because every arch I got was broken in at least 2 pieces. It was a mix of grey with chunks of white rock inside. I was kinda mad it was all busted up when I got it and even more so since I could have made it myself. Ahhh live and learn I guess. I noticed when I did the aggracrete thing I consistently had high phosphates. Probably one of the things I used in the making of it, not sure if white portland cement is high in phosphate. If I had to guess it was the crushed oyster shell I used.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

With the freshwater comment and the "stabilization" of the ph and alk sound like it is "designed" to erode a bit adding elements to the water less so at typical reef levels but still. In low ph freshwater my guess is it eventually raises the ph/alk to high or becomes mush. Kinda scary. The Caribsea life rock that I got a while back was a mix of aggracrete and real "marco" style rock mostly the latter. I only knew this because every arch I got was broken in at least 2 pieces. It was a mix of grey with chunks of white rock inside. I was kinda mad it was all busted up when I got it and even more so since I could have made it myself. Ahhh live and learn I guess. I noticed when I did the aggracrete thing I consistently had high phosphates. Probably one of the things I used in the making of it, not sure if white portland cement is high in phosphate. If I had to guess it was the crushed oyster shell I used.

In my head, if it were to truly effect kh/ph, it would need to dissolve…. or be nuclear powered ha. The fact that they say the rock has their media inside, and according to their website the media needs to be replaced, is just weird and didn’t make sense to me. I’m chalking this up to a big mistake on my part. Lesson learned. One, I’m an idiot for thinking dry rock is dry rock is dry rock and to just pick up what’s cheapest. Two (and this one has bit me before), if you’ve never heard of it…don’t get it

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Back to normal and I switched my kalk and calcium reactor back on this morning. Interesting that alkalinity was climbing while calcium was dropping (with kalk and calcium reactor switched off).

 

[twentyleagues]

Back to normal and I switched my kalk and calcium reactor back on this morning. Interesting that alkalinity was climbing while calcium was dropping (with kalk and calcium reactor switched off).

When I was "curing" my aggracrete I used api ph and kh test kits to tell when they stop being a lot higher than the clean water. I have no idea what the calcium level was or if it was mostly alk or what.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

When I was "curing" my aggracrete I used api ph and kh test kits to tell when they stop being a lot higher than the clean water. I have no idea what the calcium level was or if it was mostly alk or what.

I don’t even think they cared to “cure” these properly. I read somewhere that they are quickly pressure washed then left to air dry before boxing. One would think that a commercial product would fully cure items in an oven maybe. Who knows what kind of timeframe there is from manufacture to shipment. I’m pretty sure it’s blow and go. I doubt a 24hour air (drip dry) cure time is sufficient. If one is starting a tank from scratch, with zero inhabitants, probably not an issue. Adding these to a functioning system….yeah I would probably pass on that if given the choice.

 

[muffinmanXL]

Absolutely, I had the exact same issue that drove me crazy for a while. My Aquaforest rockscape was causing my alkalinity to rise from ~8-9dkh to above ~10. I didn't realize it was the rock until I transferred everything to a new tank, went bare bottom (thought sand was the culprit), replaced all RO/DI filters, stopped additives, etc. with the only carryover being the AF rock.

Once I removed the rock and replaced it with a mixture of Marco rocks and TBS live rock, the alkalinity rise stopped

 

[twentyleagues]

I don’t even think they cared to “cure” these properly. I read somewhere that they are quickly pressure washed then left to air dry before boxing. One would think that a commercial product would fully cure items in an oven maybe. Who knows what kind of timeframe there is from manufacture to shipment. I’m pretty sure it’s blow and go. I doubt a 24hour air (drip dry) cure time is sufficient. If one is starting a tank from scratch, with zero inhabitants, probably not an issue. Adding these to a functioning system….yeah I would probably pass on that if given the choice.

Oh it took me probably 2 months of curing with bi-weekly water changes with ro/di to get it below 8ph and 10kh.
I doubt any company making stuff like this would spend half the time on it. Its too costly to do that. I wouldnt expect them to. A proper warning or instruction would go a long way imo though. Just simply state you may see an undesired raise in alk in the first few days, weeks, whatever, we suggest not adding these to a tank with animals with out a soak in ro/di or salt water (whatever) for x time frame.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Oh it took me probably 2 months of curing with bi-weekly water changes with ro/di to get it below 8ph and 10kh.
I doubt any company making stuff like this would spend half the time on it. Its too costly to do that. I wouldnt expect them to. A proper warning or instruction would go a long way imo though. Just simply state you may see an undesired raise in alk in the first few days, weeks, whatever, we suggest not adding these to a tank with animals with out a soak in ro/di or salt water (whatever) for x time frame.

Exactly this!