Is Kalkwasser+trace elements still a valid/recommended approach today?

[amarti2038]

Hi all,

Since a few weeks I am dosing Kalkwasser with a drip(versa) at night to raise my PH in my RS 250, mixed reef. During the day I dose about half of my KH consumption with TM AFR (to avoid high consumes of Kalkwasser and extend the refill time, I do not have space for a big kalkwasser reservoir).

By dosing the RS Trace Colors ABCD in relation to the KH consumption I should be fine and I get my pH at night, I consume less CO2 absorber and the trace elements are also replenished. Good nice and cheaper than oder solutions. Magnesium normally dosed as well, of course. ICP every 6 months and in between an Iodine, Iron and potassium test should be enough to control the parameters together with the water changes.

But some comment that Kalkwasser can bring problems with silt, cyano, etc.

Can anyone clarify whether these problems exist or not? What are they exactly? I can't find any documentation/articles about it. Should I stop dosing Kalkwasser?

Thanks for your help and time!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There’s nothing wrong with kalkwasser.

I’m not sure what’s in the trace mix, but magnesium is not a trace element and you need it too.

 

[amarti2038]

There’s nothing wrong with kalkwasser.

I’m not sure what’s in the trace mix, but magnesium is not a trace element and you need it too.

You are right, I forgot it but magnesium its of course there

Ok, there is no side effects? Even after dosing by mistake the bottom?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You are right, I forgot it but magnesium its of course there

Ok, there is no side effects? Even after dosing by mistake the bottom?

You mean dosing undissolved solids on the bottom? That can spike alk and pH, but doesn’t necessarily cause big problems.

 

[amarti2038]

Yes, exactly that. Ok, well if the only risk is the spike in ph/KH it can be used perfectly well.

During the nights for example from 20:00 to 08:00 of the next day dosing of the following:

1. kalkwasser: (Set the dosage amount to cover about 1/2 of the KH consuming)
2. RS trace elements a: iodine, bromine and fluoride
3. RS trace elements b: potassium and boron
4. RS trace elements c: iron and some other traces of green colors
5. RS trace elements d: bioactive elements for purple blue colors
6. Magnesium
7. Complete KH dosing with TM AFR once at 8:00.

Can some trace elements be mixed to save dosing heads?

Any additional advice? Thaanks @Randy Holmes-Farley !

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, exactly that. Ok, well if the only risk is the spike in ph/KH it can be used perfectly well.

During the nights for example from 20:00 to 08:00 of the next day dosing of the following:

1. kalkwasser: (Set the dosage amount to cover about 1/2 of the KH consuming)
2. RS trace elements a: iodine, bromine and fluoride
3. RS trace elements b: potassium and boron
4. RS trace elements c: iron and some other traces of green colors
5. RS trace elements d: bioactive elements for purple blue colors
6. Magnesium
7. Complete KH dosing with TM AFR once at 8:00.

Can some trace elements be mixed to save dosing heads?

Any additional advice? Thaanks @Randy Holmes-Farley !

I don’t know exactly how they formulate them. There may well be conflicts in mixing them. That said, if the things you list in 2 and 3 are all that is there (aside from benign ions such as chloride) then they could be mixed.

 

[amarti2038]

I don’t know exactly how they formulate them. There may well be conflicts in mixing them. That said, if the things you list in 2 and 3 are all that is there (aside from benign ions such as chloride) then they could be mixed.

Ok, I know you dont like them, but FM has traces to complete a two part based dosing. Their Fauna Marin Multi Elements A/B, this may be a possible way. Using two heads less. It should work.

 

[amarti2038]

I don’t know exactly how they formulate them. There may well be conflicts in mixing them. That said, if the things you list in 2 and 3 are all that is there (aside from benign ions such as chloride) then they could be mixed.

In this case, we all dose Kalk at night to mitigate the nocturnal PH drop. And as you say, there is no problems with kalkwasser if we do not dose the concentrated bottom solution (in worse case only a PH/KH spike would occur).

Just to complete the Thread and make sense of it all.

In an average mixed reef aquarium, with fish, anemones and some acropora. What is the ideal pH graph to look for throughout the day? Flat at 8.2? PH at 8.25 during the daytime and lighting period and then we can ignore the nighttime period as long as it does not drop below 7.8?

@Randy Holmes-Farley, what is the graph and the likely ideal PH value you would look for?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In this case, we all dose Kalk at night to mitigate the nocturnal PH drop. And as you say, there is no problems with kalkwasser if we do not dose the concentrated bottom solution (in worse case only a PH/KH spike would occur).

Just to complete the Thread and make sense of it all.

In an average mixed reef aquarium, with fish, anemones and some acropora. What is the ideal pH graph to look for throughout the day? Flat at 8.2? PH at 8.25 during the daytime and lighting period and then we can ignore the nighttime period as long as it does not drop below 7.8?

@Randy Holmes-Farley, what is the graph and the likely ideal PH value you would look for?

i do not know if there is an ideal pH, and it may depend on the criteria. Calcification by hard corals? Growth of soft corals and macroalgae? Color of corals? Some coral farmers push quite high.

 

[rishma]

Like many others, I dose kalk at night to mitigate pH drop and AFR when lights come on to dose additional alkalinity and other elements.

I started with kalk, and added AFR when I needed more alkalinity than I wanted to dose through kalk. My daily kalk limited it based on the size of my reservoir and my desired duration between refilling and mixing. Nothing more clever than that.

I don’t know that you’ll get anyone to credibly tell you an ideal pH. Most people agree that higher is better, within reason, for calcification of corals.

I do other things like aeration with outside air to try keep my pH range relatively narrow and consistent. This is not because I believe I have the idea range, but more consistent pH leads to more consistent alkalinity consumption, in my experience. I find this helpful because it means I can test and adjust my dosing amount less frequently to stay around my target alkalinity.

 

[amarti2038]

Like many others, I dose kalk at night to mitigate pH drop and AFR when lights come on to dose additional alkalinity and other elements.

I started with kalk, and added AFR when I needed more alkalinity than I wanted to dose through kalk. My daily kalk limited it based on the size of my reservoir and my desired duration between refilling and mixing. Nothing more clever than that.

I don’t know that you’ll get anyone to credibly tell you an ideal pH. Most people agree that higher is better, within reason, for calcification of corals.

I do other things like aeration with outside air to try keep my pH range relatively narrow and consistent. This is not because I believe I have the idea range, but more consistent pH leads to more consistent alkalinity consumption, in my experience. I find this helpful because it means I can test and adjust my dosing amount less frequently to stay around my target alkalinity.

Many do it yes (Kalk + AFR + Magnesium ), but needs also some additional trace elements, as the AFR will just cover some % of your KH and will dose those traces but this will be less than it should because your kalk do not dose them. Do you dose some additional traces? How? Or simply fill them after ICP?

The point with the PH question is, is a low PH at night, lets say 7.8 and 8.2 during the day a good approach? For sure during the day you need high PH to get a better growth, correct me please if I am wrong but this has been demonstrated not?, or at least the people from BRS tell it quite often.
But do we need to keep PH high at night? Do some growth happen at night? I just ask my selft if would be just fine to mantain 7.9 at night and push hard on the day 8.3.

We wouldnt use that much CO2 absorver/Kalk and have a very good performance.

I was hoping someone could bring some certainty. But there seems to be no magic recipe

 

[rishma]

Many do it yes (Kalk + AFR + Magnesium ), but needs also some additional trace elements, as the AFR will just cover some % of your KH and will dose those traces but this will be less than it should because your kalk do not dose them. Do you dose some additional traces? How? Or simply fill them after ICP?

The point with the PH question is, is a low PH at night, lets say 7.8 and 8.2 during the day a good approach? For sure during the day you need high PH to get a better growth, correct me please if I am wrong but this has been demonstrated not?, or at least the people from BRS tell it quite often.
But do we need to keep PH high at night? Do some growth happen at night? I just ask my selft if would be just fine to mantain 7.9 at night and push hard on the day 8.3.

We wouldnt use that much CO2 absorver/Kalk and have a very good performance.

I was hoping someone could bring some certainty. But there seems to be no magic recipe

I am about to run another ICP but past ones have shown my mix works pretty well. I add magnesium every couple of weeks. Iodine used to be low, but I manually dose a little of that too. Some elements tend toward the lower end of the range, but since I don’t believe the ranges much anyway I don’t worry about it.

I assume higher pH during the day does help with growth. Keeping pH higher at night increases my average during the day so for me it’s all connected.

Kalk at night keeps my pH easily above 8, aeration with outside air raises it another 0.1+ at least. My pH over the last 24hrs 8.25-8.34.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am about to run another ICP but past ones have shown my mix works pretty well. I add magnesium every couple of weeks. Iodine used to be low, but I manually dose a little of that too. Some elements tend toward the lower end of the range, but since I don’t believe the ranges much anyway I don’t worry about it.

I assume higher pH during the day does help with growth. Keeping pH higher at night increases my average during the day so for me it’s all connected.

Kalk at night keeps my pH easily above 8, aeration with outside air raises it another 0.1+ at least. My pH over the last 24hrs 8.25-8.34.

One magnesium option, which is what I did, was to add fixed magnesium to my water change water. That limited the possible effects of overdose to the max I added there, while providing plenty for consumption, without any tests needed.

 

[rishma]

One magnesium option, which is what I did, was to add fixed magnesium to my water change water. That limited the possible effects of overdose to the max I added there, while providing plenty for consumption, without any tests needed.

Interesting. I add it per about 2.8 dKH/ 20 ppm calcium from Kalk, sometimes I add it and change water the next day which doesn’t seem too smart…but I have a lifetime supply.