NEVER Remove Sand! But Why?

[MrSkumfrog]

Hello,

I watched a BRS video several months ago. They talked about mistakes they had made in the past. Ryan mentioned that he would never again, remove a sandbed from an established tank. He had issues after doing so.

Surely, some of you have done so? What sort of issues did you face?

 

[Crabs McJones]

Basically what happens when you disturb an established sandbed is that sandbed is going to be loaded with detritus, trapped gasses, and other toxic nastiness. So when you remove the sandbed, all that stuff gets released and causes nutrient spikes (ammonia and nitrate) and can kill inhabitants.

 

[Silent]

You also are removing biological filtration by removing the sand.

 

[Samina]

It’s a major destabilizing event. And as the mantra goes, stabile is key in this hobby. Also +1 on what @Crabs McJones said.

That said, some folks do it and some have great success. Maybe the manner you go about it and how much is taken out and how often makes a difference there.

 

[Waters]

If you have a deep sand bed, you just need to do it slowly over time. A shallow sand bed can normally be removed all at once. I removed mine without any issues.

 

[DaneGer21]

I’ve done it once on my old custom 90. I rarely vacuumed it and it turned into a Nitrate factory. I removed very little each week while replacing it with new sand.

I went SLOW. Maybe only a solo cup full a week! It worked for me and allowed me to “reset”.

I could see disturbing a large area or removing all at once could cause issues.

If you decide to swap out sand for new, go SLOW!

 

[bjc451]

I’m not sure the sand bed has much biological filtration. It’s proven in a rip clean

 

[j.falk]

I took all of my sand out at one time recently and have had no issues at all...BUT I also have a nano tank and my live rock is well established and able to handle the small fish bioload in the tank.

 

[Cell]

I'm thinking @brandon429 might have some insight and evidence with this one.

 

[bjc451]

I'm thinking @brandon429 might have some insight and evidence with this one.

I agree

 

[jp_75]

what if you want to add more sand?
how much you could add at the time?
how often do you add?
do you clean new one before adding?

 

[brandon429]

A huge diatribe is coming up but I have to run an errand brb

 

[brandon429]

Before I go: has anyone ever seen a less than white reef sandbed at a macna convention

you know, the brown red black zones mixed and producing bubbles on cross section full tank shot kind of aged reef bed, like what is in a home

how did the entrants ever get free from the original bed without total reef decay

how far can one extrapolate that recurring theme in convention reef tanks, some of them entrusted to house fifty thousand in rare corals for as long as you like--is there a secret unspoken procedural technique for moving macna reefs/

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

How to remove sandbeds successfully 100% of the time. I'm late / cannot resist surface area bait, ever

 

[Tamberav]

I remove my sand and wash it and replace Every 6 months and it's never been a problem.

I have even removed it entirely to go BB with no notable change to corals.

Probably a lot more too it then just 'never remove your sand bed' such as depth...age....the way you remove it... How much crud is in it and so on.

 

[CavalierReef]

I’m not sure the sand bed has much biological filtration. It’s proven in a rip clean

I don't think I've ever heard that supposition.

 

[Daddy-o]

I have been sucking the sand out for months - no issues.

 

[Seanb1]

I removed a ton of sand from a 220 over the course of a few months doing water changes.
Just sucked it up little by little until it was gone.
Didn’t notice anything really.

 

[NanoDJS]

I would clarify this statement by saying I would never pull out an established and groomed sandbed of a few years , its absolutely going to have negative impacts, but if your just taking out sand that is basically fresh , or problematic to begin with you will probably see good results from removing it. Sandbeds do alot and are no cake walk to conquer. Though the current hype is bare-bottom those present their own problems and limitations. I will always have sand personally.

 

[brandon429]

in that thread we removed ten year beds.

this isn't just challenge for challenge sake though, these people were mostly moving homes, we were forced to find a way to break that rule of disturbance.

the good part is 100% over 5 years, this is some of the tightest stats one can get in reefing. it all stems from noticing a common fallacy in the hobby (yes, there are more fallacies beyond stuck cycles)

that removing surface area must be done in portions to allow buildup on other surfaces, ie bac move from one location to another.


That doesn't occur in reefing, ever, so we were able to break the rules if a certain order of ops is in play, click the thread to see examples.

when one removes a sandbed instantly, the bac do not grow or become more dense on remaining surfaces, that's the fallacy at play.

the other surfaces are either enough surface area to run the reef bioload alone, or they're not, and the whole system dies in ten hours.

there is no in between cycle, ever, and there is no mini cycle in reefing.

at no time in reefing has any tank had a stuck reading of .5 true ammonia or .25 true ammonia, all of them are false reads, no seneye users report ammonia in the tenths, ever. = we have a new cycle ref in town and its seneye.

while its true that removing sandbeds not using the known safe order of ops can have lasting harm, using the safe order of ops clearly isn't harmful, even for aged beds, its in the link.


*what does happen to the remaining bac?

like any hydrated bacterial colonies, their life / death cycles continue in relation to their vital space...the rock left. water shear/tank current controls how tall bac can stack on a given surface, those rocks have been regulating the amounts of bac they carry since you put them in, they don't stop doing that just because sand is given, or taken.

interspecies pressure also regulates bacteria colonies we can see. if you aren't dosing carbon, reef bac tend to balance themselves just fine. forever.

if you remove one set of wheels from a dually pickup, leaving only 4, it still drives.

100% of the bad stuff you see involved in sandbed removals is the detritus not being teased out correctly, and, after a bed exchange you re ramp up the lights.

you will bleach out more systems if you put the new reef back under full lighting instantly.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Confession: I killed a perfectly fine (and beautiful) long-time Pearlscale Butterfly by removing 1/2 my sand in a 6-foot tank last week. It kicked up a green/brown detritus storm like a cesspool. Bad move on my part.