New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

[Formulator]

@Randy Holmes-Farley, have you worked out the expected pH boost per ppm addition of the NaOH solution? I suppose I could do the henderson hasselbalch work myself but hoping you can save me the effort

 

[pav306]

Is there any reason this recipe would not mix correctly, I added 101.7g per litre of calcium chloride anhydrous, let it mix for a while then added 69g per litre magnesium chloride hexahydrate and let it mix in moth a pump. I then added 1.3g per litre of strontium chloride. The next day I bottled it and filled my dose container and it seems to have not dissolved fully and settled on the bottom, what did I do wrong?

 

[Formulator]

Is there any reason this recipe would not mix correctly, I added 101.7g per litre of calcium chloride anhydrous, let it mix for a while then added 69g per litre magnesium chloride hexahydrate and let it mix in moth a pump. I then added 1.3g per litre of strontium chloride. The next day I bottled it and filled my dose container and it seems to have not dissolved fully and settled on the bottom, what did I do wrong?

Your math works out for your choices of hydration forms of the salts… maybe order of addition could help, but there could also be impurities involved in precipitation depending on the salt sources. Try adding the magnesium first, followed by calcium and then strontium last. You might also be able to dissolve the rest in your existing solution with a little heat and longer mixing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley, have you worked out the expected pH boost per ppm addition of the NaOH solution? I suppose I could do the henderson hasselbalch work myself but hoping you can save me the effort

I have measured it but it is not a fixed number. It is higher at lower pH and higher at lower alkalinity.

At about 7 dKH and pH 8.1, adding 1.4 dKH instantly boosts pH by about 0.65 pH units, and it falls back from there as the tank pulls in CO2. If you spread that addition out, each boost is proportionally smaller, and the pH drops back after each one.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is there any reason this recipe would not mix correctly, I added 101.7g per litre of calcium chloride anhydrous, let it mix for a while then added 69g per litre magnesium chloride hexahydrate and let it mix in moth a pump. I then added 1.3g per litre of strontium chloride. The next day I bottled it and filled my dose container and it seems to have not dissolved fully and settled on the bottom, what did I do wrong?

Combining calcium and magnesium chlorides often results in some calcium sulfate precipitation, with the sulfate coming as an impurity in the magnesium chloride.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No I don't. I will have to figure that out. Thanks!

Are you dosing anything for alkalinity now?

 

[pav306]

Combining calcium and magnesium chlorides often results in some calcium sulfate precipitation, with the sulfate coming as an impurity in the magnesium chloride.

Thanks Randy,

Should there be that qty though, do I need to heat and remix, adjust ph to try and dissolve it or do a controlled test to see if the solution gives expected cal rise?

When I stir it it turns to a cloady solution, as movement reduces it slowly coalesces forming fluffy cloady like lumps that then slowly sink to the bottom until it's settled out again.

 

[pav306]

I checked ph and it was 8.9, added a ml or 2 of 4.0n hydrochloric acid dropped to 7 and seems to have stabilised, I may have added the chemicals too quickly

 

[Reefmate]

Hi, I get too much precipitation from the diy sodium hydroxide so I have decided to try the bolus method with a diy sodium bicarbonate mix. How much bicarbonate can I dissolve in 10 liters of RO water?

 

[Miami Reef]

Hi, I get too much precipitation from the diy sodium hydroxide so I have decided to try the bolus method with a diy sodium bicarbonate mix. How much bicarbonate can I dissolve in 10 liters of RO water?

784.6g of sodium bicarbonate in 10 liters of RO/DI.

Select “Randy recipe 2” for baking soda for specific adjustments.

Reef Chemistry Calculator

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi, I get too much precipitation from the diy sodium hydroxide so I have decided to try the bolus method with a diy sodium bicarbonate mix. How much bicarbonate can I dissolve in 10 liters of RO water?

Presumably you wanted higher pH. Why drop all the way back to a pH lowering solution instead of something in between hydroxide and bicarbonate, namely carbonate?

 

[dtv0893]

Here's a first crack at what may end up being multiple possible recipes for a DIY two part that either has a higher pH or can be made more concentrated than traditional two part recipes. This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of alkalinity or calcium added. Note that I have neither made nor used this recipe. I fully expect it to work, but first adopters will be guinea pigs.

Note that the formation of some cloudiness of magnesium hydroxide is expected when the alk part hits the water (as carbonate versions also do). That is OK since it redissolves on mixing in more. But since the local pH is higher, there may be more chance for local precipitation of calcium carbonate, which is not optimal since it may waste additive (but otherwise is not a huge problem, IMO). To reduce this chance, add slowly to a very high flow area.

This first one is based on Jim Welsh's version of a DIY two part:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...hould-i-expect-to-change.215171/#post-2466696

Jim's recipe (with some text added by me):

Part 1 - The Calcium and Magnesium Part​

Dissolve 500 g of calcium chloride dihydrate plus 261.2 g of magnesium chloride hexahydrate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.​

​

Part 2 - The Alkalinity and Sulfate Part​

Dissolve 374.7 g of sodium carbonate (594 g of baking soda that has been baked; = 3.535 moles of sodium carbonate) plus 68.7 g of sodium sulfate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.​

​

This recipe is the same strength as Randy's Recipe #1 (e.g., BRS). To make these two parts with the same strength as B-Ionic, then multiply the amounts of the salts by 1.5 (but note dissolving the carbonate can become challenging).​

The sodium hydroxide version:

Part 1 - The Calcium and Magnesium Part​

Dissolve 500 g of calcium chloride dihydrate plus 261.2 g of magnesium chloride hexahydrate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.​

​

Part 2 - The Alkalinity and Sulfate Part​

Dissolve 282.8 g of sodium hydroxide (=7.07 moles of sodium hydroxide to match the 3.535 moles of sodium carbonate in alkalinity) plus 68.7 g of sodium sulfate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon. BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin.​

​

This recipe is the same strength as Randy's Recipe #1 (e.g., BRS). To make these two parts with the same strength as B-Ionic, then multiply the amounts of the salts by 1.5. This version can readily be made more concentrated, if that is a goal.​

start researching on your recipe, just wondering that is this gonna cause ionic imbalance?

 

[Tall Guy Clark]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley,

I just read though the entire 42 pages to try to avoid asking a question you already answered, so please forgive me if i missed something.

Im currently using ESV Bionic ALK, CA and MAG. Would there be an issue if i just swap out the ESV ALK component for the Sodium Hydroxide can continue to use the ESV CA and MAG? Really my only goal is the PH Boost.

Secondarily, is the Sodium Hydroxide safe to store in an acrylic dosing container? https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/brstv-product-spotlight-simplicity-dosing-reservoirs

Thank you for your time as always.
-Brandon

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi @Randy Holmes-Farley,

I just read though the entire 42 pages to try to avoid asking a question you already answered, so please forgive me if i missed something.

Im currently using ESV Bionic ALK, CA and MAG. Would there be an issue if i just swap out the ESV ALK component for the Sodium Hydroxide can continue to use the ESV CA and MAG? Really my only goal is the PH Boost.

Secondarily, is the Sodium Hydroxide safe to store in an acrylic dosing container? https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/brstv-product-spotlight-simplicity-dosing-reservoirs

Thank you for your time as always.
-Brandon

You will need a higher amount of the hydroxide formula (or make it more potent) and it is not as ionically balanced as the ESV when using just 2 parts. When the B-ionic calcium runs out, switch to using Tropic Marin Balling Part C and simple calcium chloride for the other two parts.

 

[MnFish1]

Here's a first crack at what may end up being multiple possible recipes for a DIY two part that either has a higher pH or can be made more concentrated than traditional two part recipes. This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of alkalinity or calcium added. Note that I have neither made nor used this recipe. I fully expect it to work, but first adopters will be guinea pigs.

Note that the formation of some cloudiness of magnesium hydroxide is expected when the alk part hits the water (as carbonate versions also do). That is OK since it redissolves on mixing in more. But since the local pH is higher, there may be more chance for local precipitation of calcium carbonate, which is not optimal since it may waste additive (but otherwise is not a huge problem, IMO). To reduce this chance, add slowly to a very high flow area.

This first one is based on Jim Welsh's version of a DIY two part:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...hould-i-expect-to-change.215171/#post-2466696

Jim's recipe (with some text added by me):

Part 1 - The Calcium and Magnesium Part​

Dissolve 500 g of calcium chloride dihydrate plus 261.2 g of magnesium chloride hexahydrate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.​

​

Part 2 - The Alkalinity and Sulfate Part​

Dissolve 374.7 g of sodium carbonate (594 g of baking soda that has been baked; = 3.535 moles of sodium carbonate) plus 68.7 g of sodium sulfate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.​

​

This recipe is the same strength as Randy's Recipe #1 (e.g., BRS). To make these two parts with the same strength as B-Ionic, then multiply the amounts of the salts by 1.5 (but note dissolving the carbonate can become challenging).​

The sodium hydroxide version:

Part 1 - The Calcium and Magnesium Part​

Dissolve 500 g of calcium chloride dihydrate plus 261.2 g of magnesium chloride hexahydrate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.​

​

Part 2 - The Alkalinity and Sulfate Part​

Dissolve 282.8 g of sodium hydroxide (=7.07 moles of sodium hydroxide to match the 3.535 moles of sodium carbonate in alkalinity) plus 68.7 g of sodium sulfate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon. BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin.​

​

This recipe is the same strength as Randy's Recipe #1 (e.g., BRS). To make these two parts with the same strength as B-Ionic, then multiply the amounts of the salts by 1.5. This version can readily be made more concentrated, if that is a goal.​

curious. Can you give any evidence that this is better than the usual protocol? This is interesting as I'm starting a new tank

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

curious. Can you give any evidence that this is better than the usual protocol? This is interesting as I'm starting a new tank

Evidence that what is better than what?

I personally recommend this recipe below, which has the highest possible pH boost of any alk additive and is perfectly ionically balanced (ignoring consumption of ions that get into the coral skeleton):

DIY Three Part with Balling Part C Recipe

Notice: These DIYs are simple to use. They are all 1:1:1 dosing to maintain alkalinity. For example, if you require 50mL of the alkalinity solution per day, use 50mL of part 2 and part 3 as well. Alkalinity (Pick one): Sodium carbonate (Soda Ash) Food-grade "Spread baking soda (594 grams...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MnFish1]

Evidence that what is better than what?

I personally recommend this recipe below, which has the highest possible pH boost of any alk additive and is perfectly ionically balanced (ignoring consumption of ions that get into the coral skeleton):

DIY Three Part with Balling Part C Recipe

Notice: These DIYs are simple to use. They are all 1:1:1 dosing to maintain alkalinity. For example, if you require 50mL of the alkalinity solution per day, use 50mL of part 2 and part 3 as well. Alkalinity (Pick one): Sodium carbonate (Soda Ash) Food-grade "Spread baking soda (594 grams...

www.reef2reef.com

Evidence that its better than your usual recipe - what else?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Evidence that its better than your usual recipe - what else?

lol

There are lots of recipes. Still don't understand.

Are you asking about the hydroxide part compared to bicarbonate and/or carbonate parts, or the other ion balance part?

 

[Miami Reef]

lol

There are lots of recipes. Still don't understand.

Are you asking about the hydroxide part compared to bicarbonate and/or carbonate parts, or the other ion balance part?

I think Mnfish might be wondering if the first recipe of the sodium hydroxide (the true 2 part that uses sodium sulfate) is better than the 2nd recipe that is a 3 part.

Is that right, @MnFish1 ?

 

[MnFish1]

I think Mnfish might be wondering if the first recipe of the sodium hydroxide (the true 2 part that uses sodium sulfate) is better than the 2nd recipe that is a 3 part.

Is that right, @MnFish1 ?

Correct - why is the second recipe better than the first - or vice versa - I dont remember lol. I mean thousands of reefers use recipe xx (as I said I dont remember which one) - and now a new one is suggested - why? Where is the evidence. ?