New torch coral is dying

[VintageReefer]

Okay will monitor display for now. I attached a photo but color of the container makes it difficult to see. Jelly seems to be in center where it looks darker and you can see some of the melting tissue on the periphery. Smelled the frag prior to placing in this container and smelled like rotten fish.

The smell is a tell tale sign of infection. And this goes internally inthe skeleton

 

[slik419]

Probably too far gone. Happened to me last week

Bright neon yellow on the left. Had it a week. Everyday open like this

Then notice on day 8 it’s half size

Inspect and see skeleton in an area. I cleaned and did h2o2 dip then lugols dip and return to display cleaned

Next day bjd showing. I get aggressive and do kfc dip / procedure

Died during dip. Too far infected

Hadn’t heard of KFC dip. I’m worried this torch is also too far infected at this point but will try it tonight. I could tell it was unhappy 24h into receiving it but the last 24h has been so quick.

 

[VintageReefer]

Hadn’t heard of KFC dip. I’m worried this torch is also too far infected at this point but will try it tonight. I could tell it was unhappy 24h into receiving it but the last 24h has been so quick.

Did you report to the vendor?

 

[VintageReefer]

The KFC Dip - A game changer in keeping healthy Euphyllia

Version: 1.1 (Updated 8/20/22) Please check this link for the latest version as the version included in the med kit but be outdated: https://kungfucorals.com/blogs/news/the-kfc-dip-a-game-changer-in-keeping-healthy-euphyllia PRE-WASH and POST WASH:!! Make sure to pre-wash corals before going...

kungfucorals.com

 

[VintageReefer]

Also my system did not become infected. Only the torch that displayed the issue and it was removed before it got really bad. Everything else is ok

 

[SudzFD]

Hey guys,
New to reefing. I have 36 gal bow front tank that has been cycled for about 6 months. Lighting is an AI prime 16. I have a mixed reef tank with frogspawn, hammers, and a few other LPS, SPS, soft corals. Everyone else is doing well and growing. Tank parameters are the following: specific gravity is 1.026, Ca 420, alkalinity 8.6, pH 8, nitrates 10, phos 0.2. Chemistry has been consistent. I had only 1 dragon soul torch and it’s been doing well and last week I received a holy grail, Malaysian, and Indo gold torch. I dipped all coral in an iodine dip for 15 min and placed in an area with decent flow and light. All except the holy grail is doing well. Shortly after first 24h I noticed that the holy grail started to bubble up on tissue, then tissue receded from both base and up near the head and tentacles started to slough off exposing the septa and corallite structure. I don’t see brown jelly like I’ve seen on pictures, just that the tentacles shrivel up and turn a little brown. But I’ve also never had BJD so ‍ . The area most affected is away from the other torches I have in the garden. The new torches have been in for 8 days now. I have been feeding reef chili/mysis shrimp soaked in brightwell restor. There is a dead head next to it on other side of pic (hard to get image on that side and it’s how it arrived). Is this stress from new arrival? Any suggestions to save this coral?

In my opinion, all you can do is leave it alone and wait and see. I wouldn’t do anything as it will only further stress it. The fact that this happened within 24 hours, lends me to believe it’s not disease lighting flow or water parameters. Those would develop over longer time frames. This is likely stress from transport/acclimation, or something that occurred to it prior to arrival.

Good luck.

 

[Formulator]

If you are trying to heal a torch or if it has no flesh and you want to get the flesh growing you put them in low light low flow

Even if the reason it is losing tissue is due to insufficient light? Not saying that is definitely the issue here, but it was a hypothesis we were exploring when I recommended moving it up in the tank.

 

[SudzFD]

Even if the reason it is losing tissue is due to insufficient light? Not saying that is definitely the issue here, but it was a hypothesis we were exploring when I recommended moving it up in the tank.

Not enough light would be something to explore if this happened weeks or months later. Since it’s a new addition, less light is ideal under normal conditions as it acclimated to the lights. In this case where it’s distressed even more so that it have less light to rule out bleaching/over lit.

Storms can cover the reefs in dim lights for weeks without issue to the corals and even our tanks can go dim for significant periods without killing our corals.

 

[slik419]

The KFC Dip - A game changer in keeping healthy Euphyllia

Version: 1.1 (Updated 8/20/22) Please check this link for the latest version as the version included in the med kit but be outdated: https://kungfucorals.com/blogs/news/the-kfc-dip-a-game-changer-in-keeping-healthy-euphyllia PRE-WASH and POST WASH:!! Make sure to pre-wash corals before going...

kungfucorals.com

By the time I got home and did the pre wash it’s pure skeleton. Hoping the others in the shipment stay healthy. Another torch I received has a short tissue band and similarly had a dead head next to it on arrival. That one seems to be okay for now.

 

[slik419]

The smell is a tell tale sign of infection. And this goes internally inthe skeleton

Went from a faint smell this afternoon when I spotted the brown streak and sniffed it to full blown house smelled like rotten fish when I got home. I knew it could progress quick but experiencing it was still shocking.

 

[Moe K]

I have been feeding reef chili/mysis shrimp soaked in brightwell restor

Have you been feeding your torches this?

IME it's best to stop target feeding torches. Only let them get what is broadcasted. Also aminos can contribute a lot to infection.

Also the only thing I would dip a torch in to clean it is reef primer. It's gentle and cleans off infections better than anything else I tried with the least stress. H202 wrecks torches when I tried it and Iodine dip didn't work nearly as good as reef primer.

 

[VintageReefer]

Have you been feeding your torches this?

IME it's best to stop target feeding torches. Only let them get what is broadcasted. Also aminos can contribute a lot to infection.

Also the only thing I would dip a torch in to clean it is reef primer. It's gentle and cleans off infections better than anything else I tried with the least stress. H202 wrecks torches when I tried it and Iodine dip didn't work nearly as good as reef primer.

The food he was using is a great combination.

However the issue at hand was not nutritional nor parameter related, the torch had a bacterial infection and the only methods to save were prolonged antibiotic baths. Since we don’t know what strain of bacteria. A multitude of products are suggested. You have little time to act. It’s throw everything together in a Hail Mary, do nothing, or do incorrect things. Only one of these has the possibility of survival

Torches should be fed. Broadcast vs target is dependent on your tanks setup. Your flow allows broadcast feeding? Great. I have high flow environments. If I Have 100 corals and frags and broadcast feed, about 10 will get food directly. I have to kill flow and target feed everything by hand.

If a coral needs extra nutrition for whatever reason, target feeding is more efficient and allows interaction and observation, and keeps you from dumping excess product into the tank. It really depends on your setup and you shouldn’t broadly generalize and advise against target feeding. The bigger picture is making sure the coral gets food, regardless of method

 

[VintageReefer]

By the time I got home and did the pre wash it’s pure skeleton. Hoping the others in the shipment stay healthy. Another torch I received has a short tissue band and similarly had a dead head next to it on arrival. That one seems to be okay for now.

If bagged individually then it is possible the remaining one is unaffected

 

[codycolina707]

Already doing it when I received the corals. First time using it so I’ll let you know how it goes

If you like torches I'd looking into kfc dip I will just sometimes randomly dose my tank with ciprofloxacin seems to help keep brown jelly away

 

[Moe K]

The food he was using is a great combination.

However the issue at hand was not nutritional nor parameter related, the torch had a bacterial infection and the only methods to save were prolonged antibiotic baths. Since we don’t know what strain of bacteria. A multitude of products are suggested. You have little time to act. It’s throw everything together in a Hail Mary, do nothing, or do incorrect things. Only one of these has the possibility of survival

Torches should be fed. Broadcast vs target is dependent on your tanks setup. Your flow allows broadcast feeding? Great. I have high flow environments. If I Have 100 corals and frags and broadcast feed, about 10 will get food directly. I have to kill flow and target feed everything by hand.

If a coral needs extra nutrition for whatever reason, target feeding is more efficient and allows interaction and observation, and keeps you from dumping excess product into the tank. It really depends on your setup and you shouldn’t broadly generalize and advise against target feeding. The bigger picture is making sure the coral gets food, regardless of method

Maybe I shouldn't have generalized against target feeding but I would say that depends on what exactly you plan on feeding it and how often. I stay away from target feeding torches powdered foods as that most times has a big reaction with my torch corals evident when they excessively slime. I used to think that was a good feeding response but when they would begin to get receding dark flesh I changed course on that thought. Feeding something like oyster feast or just plain mysis usually has a less intense slime reaction and would think that is a good indicator it is a proper food for the specific coral. I am now more inclined to believe that the intense slime reaction is more a defense mechanism and expends a lot of energy for the coral leaving it more susceptible to illness. So I would also not generalize target feeding is safe specifically for torch corals either and it just depends on what you feed it and how often. Mr. Chili is something I personally would not feed them or target them with a high concentrations of amino acids (because it's pathogen fuel).

But either way sadly OP's torch was in bad shape when he made this post and agree an antibiotic dip could have helped but for the other torches in his tank reef primer tends to be enough as a preventative dip. I mention the feeding because he still has new torches in the tank he was concerned about. At the least I suggest staying away from target feeding powdered foods and amino acids until things settle down.

 

[VintageReefer]

Maybe I shouldn't have generalized against target feeding but I would say that depends on what exactly you plan on feeding it and how often. I stay away from target feeding torches powdered foods as that most times has a big reaction with my torch corals evident when they excessively slime. I used to think that was a good feeding response but when they would begin to get receding dark flesh I changed course on that thought. Feeding something like oyster feast or just plain mysis usually has a less intense slime reaction and would think that is a good indicator it is a proper food for the specific coral. I am now more inclined to believe that the intense slime reaction is more a defense mechanism and expends a lot of energy for the coral leaving it more susceptible to illness. So I would also not generalize target feeding is safe specifically for torch corals either and it just depends on what you feed it and how often. Mr. Chili is something I personally would not feed them or target them with a high concentrations of amino acids (because it's pathogen fuel).

But either way sadly OP's torch was in bad shape when he made this post and agree an antibiotic dip could have helped but for the other torches in his tank reef primer tends to be enough as a preventative dip. I mention the feeding because he still has new torches in the tank he was concerned about. At the least I suggest staying away from target feeding powdered foods and amino acids until things settle down.

Great explanation and I do agree with the clarification.

I find my torches also prefer a meatier food vs powder based foods. Surprisingly they also sent to like flake food I offer, but it could be because I use PE Mysis flake food, the flake version of the frozen product.

I also think feeding torch 2-3x a week max is best, they need time to digest and process food before taking in another meal.

Hopefully op notified vendor as soon as a problem was detected and they are willing to agree upon a solution.

The better vendors out there (I’m thinking of SBB and Vivid offhand) offer a 14 day guarantee on corals

 

[slik419]

The food he was using is a great combination.

However the issue at hand was not nutritional nor parameter related, the torch had a bacterial infection and the only methods to save were prolonged antibiotic baths. Since we don’t know what strain of bacteria. A multitude of products are suggested. You have little time to act. It’s throw everything together in a Hail Mary, do nothing, or do incorrect things. Only one of these has the possibility of survival

Torches should be fed. Broadcast vs target is dependent on your tanks setup. Your flow allows broadcast feeding? Great. I have high flow environments. If I Have 100 corals and frags and broadcast feed, about 10 will get food directly. I have to kill flow and target feed everything by hand.

If a coral needs extra nutrition for whatever reason, target feeding is more efficient and allows interaction and observation, and keeps you from dumping excess product into the tank. It really depends on your setup and you shouldn’t broadly generalize and advise against target feeding. The bigger picture is making sure the coral gets food, regardless of method

Out of curiosity, since torches are prone to bacterial infections it seems then is it appropriate to perform a culture/sensitivity if acute tissue loss is noted? Then start on a less aggressive antibiotic dip protocol until results are in?

 

[slik419]

Great explanation and I do agree with the clarification.

I find my torches also prefer a meatier food vs powder based foods. Surprisingly they also sent to like flake food I offer, but it could be because I use PE Mysis flake food, the flake version of the frozen product.

I also think feeding torch 2-3x a week max is best, they need time to digest and process food before taking in another meal.

Hopefully op notified vendor as soon as a problem was detected and they are willing to agree upon a solution.

The better vendors out there (I’m thinking of SBB and Vivid offhand) offer a 14 day guarantee on corals

I don’t want to get into many details but the corals were sent accidentally lol so I don’t expect any credit for a free coral lol just sad that it died. I was so excited for my bright green torch, definitely one of my favorites.

 

[slik419]

Came home to this. Miami Malaysian has severe tissue recession with septa exposed. This is the other torch that also had a dead head and short tissue band. Will be dipping later. Very sad

 

[SudzFD]

Starting to question the source/shipping.worth trying the dip and then replace it in lower light with light flow and then just leave it alone. Every time they are handled they get stressed and can be damaged. Keep us posted.